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What to Do with Continuing Evidence of Race Discrimination

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 09:56 am
fishin wrote:
You are up one level to high. What you've described would be an "MA" (Metropolitan Area") in HMDA-Speak. Each MA is broken down into MSAs and MDs to allow for more granularity.

Metro NYC would be an MA. The Bronx and Manhattan would be MSAs.

Thanks for clarifying. Nevertheless, the study's model would still classify a Bronx in the same category as a Manhattan borrower. They both live inside an MSA, and the model doesn't distinguish between MSAs. It only distinguishes between "Inside an inner city", "inside some MSA, but not an inner city", and "rural".

fishin wrote:
Within the MSAs things are further broken down into MDs. There is no size limit there but they tend to use the postal codes which gives you the individual neighborhoods in major cities (Boston has ~40 postal code for example.)

Again, thanks. So I guess the variable I'd like to see controlled or is "bankruptcy rate within borrower's MD" or something similar. This would help distinguish between raw racism and proxies of financial risk that may not be reflected in the credit record.

Another point that comes to mind: Does the study say anywhere what the probability of a black person is to receive a lower rate than a comparable white? Hypothetically, if the distribution was higher: 30%, same: 40%, lower: 30%, there would be no reason to suspect discrimination even on the face of the data. Do I really expect that the likelihood of a lower rate are really 30%? No, but it would still be nice to know what the actual chances are.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 10:10 am
Regardless of the statistical outcomes, they make some valid points in the "Market Segmentation" discussion beginning on page 22 and in the impact of pricing policies in the subprime market in general on pg 19.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 10:15 am
J_B wrote:
In the model they use, I see the same concern Thomas has, but I also see a major difference in how they analyzed the data and how the study from the Fed/CRC was presented (Table 1, pgs 8-9). The Fed/CRC study found no differences when controlling for risk factors, lending institution, FICO, and LTV ratios when looking at all loans. This study does not appear to control for lender the way the Fed/CRC study did. This, to me, would be a major question - does the same lending institution require different interest rates from borrowers based on race, all other factors being equal? There is no way to answer that question from this data.


Thomas wrote:
So I guess the variable I'd like to see controlled or is "bankruptcy rate within borrower's MD" or something similar. This would help distinguish between raw racism and proxies of financial risk that may not be reflected in the credit record.



It appears that you, J_B and I are in agreement that the data we have from the article and the underlying report is inadequate to jump to an assumption that there is discrimination at play here.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 10:15 am
J_B wrote:
I'm still reading, but I have a couple comments from what I've read so far.

Thanks. My impressions are similar to yours. The study is much better than the statistical think tank sludge you get when the Heritage Foundation discusses gay marriage or something similar. I see no signs of deliberate lying. I do see a couple of holes here and there that prevent the study from overcoming my initial skepticism.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 01:27 pm
snood wrote:


I guess I should thank you for giving a discussion about racial discrimination your best shot, cjhsa.

But your patronizing attitude really comes through.


No, just pointing out that you have absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 04:35 pm
cjhsa wrote:
snood wrote:


I guess I should thank you for giving a discussion about racial discrimination your best shot, cjhsa.

But your patronizing attitude really comes through.


No, just pointing out that you have absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever.


Knowing your attitudes about racial matters in general informs my attitude about any jokes you try to make.

And buddy, you ain't no champ at laughin at yourself either.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 07:33 pm
Still waiting for that $20K from uncle Sam, eh Snood?

I am pretty shocked that your dismissal of one who should be your ally, Set, didn't earn you a dismissal from A2K.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 08:47 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Still waiting for that $20K from uncle Sam, eh Snood?

I am pretty shocked that your dismissal of one who should be your ally, Set, didn't earn you a dismissal from A2K.


what the hell are you talking about, good buddy? 20K?

My ally? You been inhaling too many gun fumes...

but I'm ever so touched that you were glad I didn't get dismissed - you were glad, right?


And not to break up this fascinating line of discussion, but - do you happen to have any thoughts about racial discrimination in housing loans?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:21 am
I already gave it. Shop around.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:34 am
No, thanks. Must not have been very lucid or memorable, which would be typical.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 11:53 am
Insurance and lending businesses are by nature discriminatory. How do you think they make money?

Get over it.

I was one of the early responders to this thread, and did so in a thoughtful and non-threatening way.

Then I watched you spill vitriol all over anyone who didn't agree with you 100%, and decided to play the game.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 02:01 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Then I watched you spill vitriol all over anyone who didn't agree with you 100%, and decided to play the game.

I don't agree with snood 100%, and he didn't spill any vitriol at all in my direction. Perhaps the tone of ones disagreement affects Snood's reaction?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jul, 2006 09:33 am
Just a footnote:

Someone suggested that I'd never heard of "redlining".

I knew of the practice before I read about this particular instance of it; though I'm not sure of how long ago I last heard it referred to by that name.

In any case, the point of this thread was to try to get a feeling for what the individual responses to instances of racial injustice would be.

Mine is sort of gritting my teeth, and renewing my resolve to fight it if and when it happens to me.

Thanks again to all who supplied their reactions.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 01:46 pm
a related article
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Aug, 2006 04:57 am
snood wrote:


Mine is sort of gritting my teeth, and renewing my resolve to fight it if and when it happens to me....


It's BEEN happening to you. Want to fight it? Start voting republican (or at least start voting against demokkkrats.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Sep, 2006 06:05 am
Your advice is noted.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Sep, 2006 07:31 am
I noted it also.
0 Replies
 
 

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