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$318 Billion Deal Is Set in Congress for Cutting Taxes

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 07:28 am
Scat
Military pay is OK if you are single and looking for three squares and a place to flop. However, for a family man with children it hardly fills the bill.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 07:36 am
Quote:
Left-Wing Liberal Lies Are Making Human Shields Of Children And Military Families
Toogood Reports ^ | June 6, 2003 | Bob Ellis


Posted on 06/06/2003 5:34 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen



I know it's been said by others like Ron Marr, but if liberals are going to repeat a lie often enough (which they do) - in the hopes that it will be accepted (which it often is), then I believe we need to keep refuting those lies with the truth as often as the lies are proffered. I'm talking about the most recent Bush tax cut, which has Democrats howling anew.

There is a movement afoot among liberals to extend the child tax credit to families in the $10,500 to $26,625 income bracket which, according to Fortress of Objectivity CNN, includes about 200,000 military families. The key to this effort is the emphasis on MILITARY families and CHILDREN.


The only time liberals give a rip about the military is (1) when they are trying to shrink it, gut it or undermine it, or (2) when they can use the military as a pawn to gain support for some liberal project-not unlike how they sometimes "wrap themselves in the flag" to make themselves look like real patriots. Similarly, the only time liberals are concerned with children is when (1) they want to kill them under the umbrella of "a woman's right to choose," or (2) when they can use them as a pawn to gain support for some liberal project.


According to CNN, Senator Blanche Lincoln, D-Arkansas said:

"When you look at the fact that 12 million children are missing an opportunity to benefit from this tax cut that we've done - these are families. These are working families that play by the rules. They're out there buying the new tires and the blue jeans and the tennis shoes and the washing powder and the cartons and cartons and cartons of milk. We want to give those families the opportunity to stimulate the economy, too."

Oh, boo-hoo! Nobody is saying these families couldn't use more money-I grew up in a low-income family, so I know that number quite well. And nobody's saying the military is overpaid for what they do-I was in the military for 10 years, so I know that song by heart, too. But it isn't really about the liberal's undying support for the military, or their desire to protect "the children," is it?


Where are these people in regard to children when kids need a solid academic education (throwing money at the education bureaucracy and the teacher's unions doesn't count)? Where are the liberals when kids need a good moral foundation (outlawing the Pledge of Allegiance, Bibles, school reports on Jesus, the Ten Commandments, and any other reference to moral absolutes doesn't count)? Where are the liberals when children need to be protected from child molesters and others of the criminal element (liberal judges, corrupt lawyers, lax laws and the enforcement thereof which allows evil dirtbags to victimize children and get off with little or no punishment doesn't count)? Where are the liberals when the parents of these children need their authority supported so they can provide a stable and wholesome household (promoting more "latchkey kids" and the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child to allow children to make decisions contrary to the wisdom and protection of their parents doesn't count)?


No, the liberals aren't fooling conservatives. They aren't fooling anyone who doesn't have their head buries in the sand, or their hand out waiting for a freebie. But what about the rest of the ignorant masses that make up cannon fodder for liberal pollsters?


As House Majority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said in the Washington Post, Republicans aren't afraid of a backlash, as long as the public realizes that only families who don't pay taxes are not getting the credit. "This is a tax credit, not a . . . number-of-children benefit program," he said.


That is exactly what liberals like Senator Lincoln and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi want to thwart-the public understanding that a TAX credit is for people who pay TAXES. What the liberals want-to give tax revenue to is people who haven't paid into that tax revenue - this is rightfully called WELFARE. Let's have the courage to call it what it is. It's a gimme, a freebie, a handout, it's unearned, it's welfare.


If Democrats want to give more handouts, more welfare, then they need to summon the courage to call it what it is. But they've realized welfare isn't in vogue anymore; the success of Republican welfare reform has proven greater even than their mountains of lies about it. So they hold out children and military families in front of themselves, as human shields. If someone literally held up a child in front of themselves to deflect attack or criticism, we'd peg them for the lowest form of despicable coward that they were. So are we going to let liberals get away with it, just because they're doing it politically rather than literally?


The Democrats live by the Joseph Goebbels rule: "If you repeat a lie, long enough, and loud enough, it'll become true." The public arena of ideas is like a vacuum: if truth isn't present to fill it, lies will surely rush in to fill the void. We who know the truth must always be ready to counter the lies of the Left, and I hope you'll join me in countering this one-long and loud!

0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 08:52 am
I also thought this one was funny:

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/comics/updating/wasserman.gif
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 08:55 am
McGent, I just had to pick on your last paragraph: "The Democrats live by the Joseph Goebbels rule: "If you repeat a lie, long enough, and loud enough, it'll become true." The public arena of ideas is like a vacuum: if truth isn't present to fill it, lies will surely rush in to fill the void. We who know the truth must always be ready to counter the lies of the Left, and I hope you'll join me in countering this one-long and loud!" How long have we been hearing that 1) Osama is the most dangerous man in the world? 2) Iraq has WMD's by the tons? 3) It's for the American people? and 4) This tax cut (for the wealthy) will stimulate our economy? c.i.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 09:09 am
au1929 wrote:
Scat
Military pay is OK if you are single and looking for three squares and a place to flop. However, for a family man with children it hardly fills the bill.

au - Again, when you factor in housing allowances, free health care, etc., it is a comfortable sum. Do you have any experience in this area, or are you just regurgitating the party line?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 09:20 am
Here's the range of military pay per month from a recent schedule by grade: E1, fresh recruit $1,023; All the following are for 4 years: E2 $1,239, E4 $1.680, E6 $2,034, W1 $2,403, O-1E $2,639, O1 $2,639, O4 $3,983, O7 $6,418. These pay scales do not include other benefits such as a) housing, b) medical care, c) meals, d) flight pay, and e) travel pay. IMHO, they are all under-paid. c.i.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 09:34 am
Scrat
You are going against the tide. There has been much discussion and articles by those who are in a position to know both democrat and republican regarding the inadequacy of military pay.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 10:00 am
The interesting thing, Au, would be to look at the Pentagon books (good luck!!) and find out who gets what. I suspect the most valuable parts of the system get the fewest bucks (the guys who do the job), and the bloat will be found in materiel, graft, and the politics.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 12:53 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Here's the range of military pay per month from a recent schedule by grade: E1, fresh recruit $1,023; All the following are for 4 years: E2 $1,239, E4 $1.680, E6 $2,034, W1 $2,403, O-1E $2,639, O1 $2,639, O4 $3,983, O7 $6,418. These pay scales do not include other benefits such as a) housing, b) medical care, c) meals, d) flight pay, and e) travel pay. IMHO, they are all under-paid. c.i.

You simply can't make that claim (and have it mean anything) unless you either factor in those benefits or factor them out of the pay of those to whom you are comparing them.

I pay for health care. I pay for my home. Those are big costs. You want to count military pay in such a way that you would have to subtract my monthly mortgage payment, health care costs and more in order to compare my pay to theirs. You have to compare apples to apples here; not apple cores to apples. As easily as you looked up the numbers for their base pay, you could look up their housing allowances for given regions, etc., if you cared to make a legitimate comparison.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 12:55 pm
au1929 wrote:
You are going against the tide. There has been much discussion and articles by those who are in a position to know both democrat and republican regarding the inadequacy of military pay.

Swimming against the tide doesn't mean you are wrong. Politicians have their own motives--conservatives and liberals with large military presences in their districts have a vested interest in championing better pay for the military. And I am not claiming that they couldn't be paid better, I am simply calling bull on the lie that military people get paid a poverty-level wage.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 01:03 pm
I can make any claim I please. If you wish to refute it, it's up to you to present your case that does compare apples and apples. Just to say you pay for your own health insurance and mortgage is moot. We're talking about the military; not you! c.i.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 01:05 pm
We're talking about people who will risk their lives for their country. c.i.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 02:07 pm
There is a military facility in our area and I know lots of people there, who I've met because of kid connections. They could be paid more, but the fact that they live on base, essentially for free, in a area where a 2-bedroom house rents for $2000/month or more, is certainly quite a perk.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 03:15 pm
cjh, That's no perk. Most don't even make $2000 a month to pay that kind of rent. c.i.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 03:19 pm
If it is so great, trade with them, even stevens!
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 03:22 pm
Did I say it was all that great? And actually c.i, if you knew the recent history of Moffett, you'd know that the folks stationed there now are mostly Special Ops personnel, fairly senior, up in pay scales. And as I said, I think they should be paid more.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 03:27 pm
It becomes a 'perk' if they make $5,000 a month, and get rent free apartment worth $2,000 a month. c.i.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2003 10:32 am
edition

Tax Credits and 'Refunds'

It has splashed across the front pages of the nation's newspapers as though it were a major scandal: In the tax-cut package just signed by President Bush, middle-income parents of underage children will pay less in taxes - Congress raised the child tax credit - while lower-income people won't be able to use that "credit."
Why won't they? Because low- income people already pay little or nothing in income taxes. But that hasn't stopped Democrats and some Republicans from saying the poor should receive the same "benefit" as middle-income Americans.
There's a bigger issue here: the pervasive and growing abuse of the tax code to achieve social goals. The income tax's purpose is to fund the federal government, not to be used in credits and deductions as a welfare program. Politicians are increasingly using Form 1040 to avoid raising spending. Over the past several years, tax cuts or tax credits have been labeled "refundable." That's Washingtonese for giving a "refund" to people who haven't paid the money in the first place. Apparently politicians think that's easier to slip past taxpayers - who can barely understand the increasingly complex tax laws - than creating a government program that would straightforwardly hand out the money to those in need.
Meanwhile, to hear the hue and cry in the media, one would think that the expansion of the child tax credit is giving away government funds to the middle-class and higher-income folks and denying them to the working poor. Not so. The child tax credit simply lets people who are paying taxes keep a little bit more of their own money. It is, after all, their money before the government takes it. (By the way, the credit isn't available to couples making more than $110,000.)
If politicians want to give $3.5 billion to the working poor, they should just do it with a spending program.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2003 11:43 am
au, It doesn't matter what language or legislation our government uses to help the poor. To begin with, our taxation system is already so screwed up, nobody can figure out what's deductible and what isn't. You can get the best tax accountants and/or attorneys in this country, and you'll get as many different tax liability showing on the bottom line. That, IMHO, is the BIGGEST problem. All the other stuff is minor league stuff that doesn't deserve the media coverage it gets. c.i.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2003 12:06 pm
c.i.
I an sure you heard this as a child. "Two wrongs do not make a right."
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