Scat
Military pay is OK if you are single and looking for three squares and a place to flop. However, for a family man with children it hardly fills the bill.
I also thought this one was funny:
McGent, I just had to pick on your last paragraph: "The Democrats live by the Joseph Goebbels rule: "If you repeat a lie, long enough, and loud enough, it'll become true." The public arena of ideas is like a vacuum: if truth isn't present to fill it, lies will surely rush in to fill the void. We who know the truth must always be ready to counter the lies of the Left, and I hope you'll join me in countering this one-long and loud!" How long have we been hearing that 1) Osama is the most dangerous man in the world? 2) Iraq has WMD's by the tons? 3) It's for the American people? and 4) This tax cut (for the wealthy) will stimulate our economy? c.i.
au1929 wrote:Scat
Military pay is OK if you are single and looking for three squares and a place to flop. However, for a family man with children it hardly fills the bill.
au - Again, when you factor in housing allowances, free health care, etc., it is a comfortable sum. Do you have any experience in this area, or are you just regurgitating the party line?
Here's the range of military pay per month from a recent schedule by grade: E1, fresh recruit $1,023; All the following are for 4 years: E2 $1,239, E4 $1.680, E6 $2,034, W1 $2,403, O-1E $2,639, O1 $2,639, O4 $3,983, O7 $6,418. These pay scales do not include other benefits such as a) housing, b) medical care, c) meals, d) flight pay, and e) travel pay. IMHO, they are all under-paid. c.i.
Scrat
You are going against the tide. There has been much discussion and articles by those who are in a position to know both democrat and republican regarding the inadequacy of military pay.
The interesting thing, Au, would be to look at the Pentagon books (good luck!!) and find out who gets what. I suspect the most valuable parts of the system get the fewest bucks (the guys who do the job), and the bloat will be found in materiel, graft, and the politics.
cicerone imposter wrote:Here's the range of military pay per month from a recent schedule by grade: E1, fresh recruit $1,023; All the following are for 4 years: E2 $1,239, E4 $1.680, E6 $2,034, W1 $2,403, O-1E $2,639, O1 $2,639, O4 $3,983, O7 $6,418. These pay scales do not include other benefits such as a) housing, b) medical care, c) meals, d) flight pay, and e) travel pay. IMHO, they are all under-paid. c.i.
You simply can't make that claim (and have it mean anything) unless you either factor in those benefits or factor them out of the pay of those to whom you are comparing them.
I pay for health care. I pay for my home. Those are big costs. You want to count military pay in such a way that you would have to subtract my monthly mortgage payment, health care costs and more in order to compare my pay to theirs. You have to compare apples to apples here; not apple cores to apples. As easily as you looked up the numbers for their base pay, you could look up their housing allowances for given regions, etc., if you cared to make a legitimate comparison.
au1929 wrote:You are going against the tide. There has been much discussion and articles by those who are in a position to know both democrat and republican regarding the inadequacy of military pay.
Swimming against the tide doesn't mean you are wrong. Politicians have their own motives--conservatives and liberals with large military presences in their districts have a vested interest in championing better pay for the military. And I am not claiming that they couldn't be paid better, I am simply calling bull on the lie that military people get paid a poverty-level wage.
I can make any claim I please. If you wish to refute it, it's up to you to present your case that does compare apples and apples. Just to say you pay for your own health insurance and mortgage is moot. We're talking about the military; not you! c.i.
We're talking about people who will risk their lives for their country. c.i.
There is a military facility in our area and I know lots of people there, who I've met because of kid connections. They could be paid more, but the fact that they live on base, essentially for free, in a area where a 2-bedroom house rents for $2000/month or more, is certainly quite a perk.
cjh, That's no perk. Most don't even make $2000 a month to pay that kind of rent. c.i.
If it is so great, trade with them, even stevens!
Did I say it was all that great? And actually c.i, if you knew the recent history of Moffett, you'd know that the folks stationed there now are mostly Special Ops personnel, fairly senior, up in pay scales. And as I said, I think they should be paid more.
It becomes a 'perk' if they make $5,000 a month, and get rent free apartment worth $2,000 a month. c.i.
edition
Tax Credits and 'Refunds'
It has splashed across the front pages of the nation's newspapers as though it were a major scandal: In the tax-cut package just signed by President Bush, middle-income parents of underage children will pay less in taxes - Congress raised the child tax credit - while lower-income people won't be able to use that "credit."
Why won't they? Because low- income people already pay little or nothing in income taxes. But that hasn't stopped Democrats and some Republicans from saying the poor should receive the same "benefit" as middle-income Americans.
There's a bigger issue here: the pervasive and growing abuse of the tax code to achieve social goals. The income tax's purpose is to fund the federal government, not to be used in credits and deductions as a welfare program. Politicians are increasingly using Form 1040 to avoid raising spending. Over the past several years, tax cuts or tax credits have been labeled "refundable." That's Washingtonese for giving a "refund" to people who haven't paid the money in the first place. Apparently politicians think that's easier to slip past taxpayers - who can barely understand the increasingly complex tax laws - than creating a government program that would straightforwardly hand out the money to those in need.
Meanwhile, to hear the hue and cry in the media, one would think that the expansion of the child tax credit is giving away government funds to the middle-class and higher-income folks and denying them to the working poor. Not so. The child tax credit simply lets people who are paying taxes keep a little bit more of their own money. It is, after all, their money before the government takes it. (By the way, the credit isn't available to couples making more than $110,000.)
If politicians want to give $3.5 billion to the working poor, they should just do it with a spending program.
au, It doesn't matter what language or legislation our government uses to help the poor. To begin with, our taxation system is already so screwed up, nobody can figure out what's deductible and what isn't. You can get the best tax accountants and/or attorneys in this country, and you'll get as many different tax liability showing on the bottom line. That, IMHO, is the BIGGEST problem. All the other stuff is minor league stuff that doesn't deserve the media coverage it gets. c.i.
c.i.
I an sure you heard this as a child. "Two wrongs do not make a right."