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$318 Billion Deal Is Set in Congress for Cutting Taxes

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 11:29 am
cjhsa
I am sure c.i. will supply the link if not I will. That is unfortunately and as I said inexplicably correct.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 11:35 am
Not arguing - just wanted a link. c.i's on the up and up.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 11:39 am
Jim, thank you for reminding us.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 12:00 pm
People who shop with food stamps shouldn't be paying for Internet access.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 12:31 pm
Okay, fair enough. Here's the link: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/5989794.htm
It does say that Senator Grasley will introduce legislation that will include low income families to benefit from the child credit. c.i.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 12:47 pm
CI - Thanks for the link.

I had not heard this, and would normally just have politely asked you to show me what you know, but since that seems verboten here, I decided to use the less cordial "I don't believe you." Glad that it worked.

Based on the article you shared, it looks like you are right about this. While I suspect that there is more to it than just, "let's not give it to single parents" it appears that your statement was true.

This article I just found explains why it is true (bold mine):
Quote:
The bill signed into law by President Bush this week increases the cap on the child tax credit from $600 to $1,000 for each of a family's first two children. Andrew Lee, a research assistant at the Washington-based center, said the higher credit does not benefit working poor because the federal tax liability on incomes of $15,000, $20,000 or $25,000 is too low. An estimated 40,000 children in Maine live in households at that income level.

Lee said existing law limits the refund a family can receive in excess of its individual tax liability. The limit currently stands at 10 percent of earnings above $10,500. That means a two-child family earning $20,000 can get no more than $950 of the $1,200 they already qualify for. So expanding the credit doesn't help them.
Tax-cut targeting praised, panned

That means that these people did not pay enough in taxes to be eligible to get any of the credit back.

But again, what you wrote IS CORRECT. I think the question of why it is correct is important, but that doesn't change the fact that--as you stated--these people don't get that money. Cool
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 12:55 pm
Scrat, You're very welcome. Glad you were able to confirm it through your own investigation. c.i.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 01:02 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Scrat, You're very welcome. Glad you were able to confirm it through your own investigation.

Sometimes that is easier done than others, though I think these discussions tend to be far more fruitful for everyone if we approach them as people working together to learn and share our points of view instead of combatants fighting to take a battlefield, point by point.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 02:00 pm
Well said, and I agree. Wink But, I'm not totally innocent in that department, either. c.i.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 02:25 pm
cjhsa wrote:
People who shop with food stamps shouldn't be paying for Internet access.


Any particular reason why not? What other things shouldn't they have?
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 02:38 pm
Tartarin - I think you take his meaning, even while taking exception with it: There are certain non-essentials that perhaps one shouldn't be laying out money for while taking money from others for one's daily bread. Whether that means Internet access or premium cable TV channels, I'll leave to you.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 09:51 pm
This just in (bold mine):

Quote:
Three days after the New York Times carried a front page story prompted by material fed to it by a liberal group, "Tax Law Omits Child Credit in Low-Income Brackets," a story which never pointed out that parents in the $10,500 to $26,000 annual income range addressed in its story already don't pay any net income taxes, the Times returned with another front page article fed to it by a couple of liberal, anti-tax cut groups suddenly concerned the tax cut was not expansive enough.

The June 1 story by David Firestone, the same reporter who re- wrote the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities press release into the May 29 front page piece, began his June 1 liberal press release in the guise of a news story: "A new study by groups critical of the tax law that President Bush signed on Wednesday has found that 8 million mostly low-income taxpayers will not receive any benefit from the law."

This time, Firestone at least focused on how these people really do pay a bit of income tax, but while he noted that they are in the 10 percent tax bracket, the lowest one, so they don't get another cut this year, he failed to point out how they already got a huge tax cut two years ago when the lowest rate was reduced from 15 to 10 percent, thus providing them with a 33 percent tax cut, the biggest one afforded to any tax bracket.

As documented in the May 30 CyberAlert, all the distorted network reporting about how parents making $10,000 to $26,000 don't qualify for the increase in the child credit were spawned by a Thursday front page New York Times story which was little more than a conduit for a press release (or a public relations guy's phone call tipping the Times reporter) from the left-wing Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), a story which though it went into great detail about the specifics of the income range in question and how the 2001 tax cut bill governs the amount of a credit those people can receive, never made the most relevant
point: That virtually no parent, with kids 17 or younger, who earns under $26,000 pays any net federal income tax. The CBPP Web site reflects how they successfully used the New York Times to advance their political agenda. For more: http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030530.asp#3

An excerpt from Firestone's June 1 story:

....The new analysis says that the taxpayers who get nothing from the tax law are primarily low-income single people who do not have children and lack income from dividends or capital gains. A large number of low- and moderate-income single parents with children over 16 will also get no benefit from the law, because it did not change the tax rate for such parents who are unmarried.

The study was conducted by two groups who have been critical of the law, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, which is affiliated with the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal research group.

Last week, the two groups, along with Citizens for Tax Justice, found that 6.5 million minimum-wage families -- with nearly 12 million children -- would not receive the $400-per-child increase in the child tax credit contained in the new law. The families were left out of the tax law in last-minute Congressional negotiations over how much to cut the tax on stock dividends and capital gains, while keeping the entire bill under the Senate limit of $350 billion.

In combination with the children who were cut from the bill's benefits by the Congressional negotiators, the study says, there are 50 million households -- 36 percent of all households in the nation -- who will receive no benefit from the tax law. The figure includes people who do not earn enough to owe income tax....

The Republican National Committee Web site describes the law in detail and summarizes the point that many members of Congress have also made this week.

"Who benefits under the president's plan?" the Web site asks. "Everyone who pays taxes -- especially middle-income Americans -- as tax rate reductions passed by Congress in 2001 are made effective immediately."

Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, made a similar point in his news briefing on Thursday, saying that people in the lowest tax bracket would "benefit the most" from the bill. "This certainly does deliver tax relief to the people who pay income taxes," he said, referring particularly to families with children....

But the new study found five million taxpayers in the lowest tax bracket who get no benefit from the law, and 2.5 million single parents with children who also pay taxes but get nothing.

In the first category are taxpayers in the 10 percent bracket who have no children and no dividend or capital gains income. This group, which constitutes 89 percent of all single taxpayers in the lowest bracket, do not benefit from the expansion of the 10 percent bracket because they are already in it. They have no children, so they do not get the child credit, and they do not benefit from the law's relief for married couples. Members of this group, who make $9,300 to $13,800 a year, now pay up to $600 in income taxes.

The second group consists of 2.5 million taxpayers in the head-of-household filing status -- mostly single parents -- who have a child over 16 and who are in the two lowest tax brackets. The study found that they will not receive a tax cut, even though they pay as much as $5,200 in income taxes, because the lowest bracket is not expanded for head-of-household filers under the new law. The child credit is not available, either, because of the age of the children....

"It's another illustration that the real purpose of this tax bill was not to give a boost to the economy now," said Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "The bill really consists of new provisions, like dividend tax cuts, that administration officials and their supporters in Congress have long wanted for other reasons. If they were really serious about boosting the economy, they would not have excluded these people, because they're the ones who spend rather than save."

Mr. Fleischer, contacted Friday on the president's trip to Europe, said the study failed to take into account that many people who did not benefit from this tax bill received benefits in the president's first tax cut, in 2001.

"If any taxpayers did not get tax relief in this bill, it is because it was such a priority to get them a head start on tax cuts in 2001," he said. "They had a two-year head start, because they were prioritized over upper-income taxpayers. The upper income taxpayers had to wait for tax relief for this bill."...

END of Excerpt

For the Times article in full: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/01/national/01TAX.html

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030602.asp

What a crime that people who don't pay taxes don't get to have any back! Rolling Eyes
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2003 08:01 am
I'm caught between laughing and being horrified at the general view the smuggies take of being on welfare and having computer access, and suggest they take a look at what a more advanced country is doing in this respect:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/31/technology/31WIFI.html
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2003 09:33 am
Why are you horrified? Just about every public library has free Internet access. Wifi is spreading around the US as well. People drive around looking for hot zones. Still, you'd have to own a laptop, which would seem prohibitive for someone on food stamps.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2003 10:21 am
You guys seem to forget the welfare which has kept you going and which I helped pay for. Your schools? Your roads? Your defense forces? Your subsidized agricultural products? Your tax free churches? Your universities?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2003 10:22 am
And by the way, the people who want to be on the internet but can't afford it because they're on welfare have also been tax payers, and have contributed to your goodies.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jun, 2003 11:26 am
Quote:


http://slate.msn.com/id/2084002/
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jun, 2003 11:56 am
I read that whole article and found it rather interesting.

The one thing that screamed through my head as I read it is that some liberals don't think the poor should pay any tax what-so-ever. At least that's the way it seems. Never mind the fact that 96.2% of Federal taxes are paid by the upper 50% of the tax payers, and that the ones that make the millions and billions as mentioned in the article pay more in taxes than many of the poor people mentioned make, combined, in a year.

Yet these poor people who won't have to pay taxes also feel entitled to all the social programs offered by the federal gov't through tax money paid by the entire population of the US.

Am I right in this observation?

(Obviously, this is coming from a conservative perspective, so please enlighten me instead of sniping the one liners)
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jun, 2003 11:57 am
Wrong, I ain't some and I ain't a liberal nor a neocon.

Some people think all the blacks should be sent back to Africa-

Please enlighten me?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jun, 2003 12:03 pm
BillW wrote:
Wrong, I ain't some and I ain't a liberal nor a neocon.

Some people think all the blacks should be sent back to Africa-

Please enlighten me?


First, let me enlighten you to the fact that I was referring to the article, not you. You did, however, post the article which means there must be something that you found in it interesting enough to post.

Secondly, WTF does sending Black people back to Africa have to do with taxes? Please stay on topic and stop trying to stray from it.
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