For all the Bush Admin Bashers...

Anarchy becomes more and more attractive to me........

Bi-Polar<

I would suggest you move your den to Iraq.

why not, it's the 51st. state. :wink:

Dys - It was a legitimate question. I have read their platform. Have you?

legitmate questions do not contain inherent bias in their asking, as in "have you stopped beating your wife?" your "question" contains the verbage "exteme socialism." and i suppose from your point of view i am an extreme socialist to the same extent you are an extreme fascist.

Dys - If I agree to retract the word "extreme" can I get you to answer the question?

FYI: When a party's political platform calls for government seizure of the assets of corporations, I consider that "extreme". Maybe you do not.

Whereas i do not necessarily advocate the seizure of corporate assets, thousands of otherwise innocent employees of Enron might have been much better off if that had been done at about the time they were pouring huge sums into the Shrub's campaign . . .

Greens call for an economic system that is based on a combination of private businesses, decentralized democratic cooperatives, publicly owned enterprises, and alternative economic structures, all of which put human and ecological needs alongside profits to measure success, and are accountable to the communities in which they function. Recognition of limits is central. The drive to accumulate power and wealth is pathological. We advocate economic relations that are more direct, more cooperative, and more egalitarian.
i am not at this time a staunch supporter of any politcial party, i do lean towards the Green party and you will also find traces of the Democrats-Republicans and yes even from the Libertarians, but as long as you need to label my political leanings with senseless and absoultely meaningless Reaganism jingoism we will never have a dialogue of merit. As long as you stick to inane "extreme socialist" i will stick to inane "extreme facist."

The fact the poll indicates there are as many Greens here as Republicans corroborates what I've said all along. A2K, like Abuzz, leans heavily to the left.

Which makes it look funny when it walks down the street . . .

OK that had me suddenly laughing out loud. So here I am looking funny.

Dys - I'll take that as a "yes".

My point (which you almost managed to elude through your refusal to simply answer a simple question) is that I have found that most Americans who have voted Green or express a desire to do so HAVE NO IDEA what the Green Party platform is. I find that fact troubling.

You seem aware of their platform and comfortable with it (at least to some degree... hard to gauge given your reluctance to discuss it). That's cool with me. I'm not nearly as troubled by those who want what the Greens want as I am by those who vote for it without knowing what they are backing.

One thing that's gonna skew the poll, for sure, is that this being an international forum, non-US citizens cannot possibly be Dems or Reps. Indies and Greens, yes.

Were you to contend to me that the most Americans who have voted either Democratic or Republican or who have expressed a desire to do so HAVE ANY IDEA what the platform of the party in question were, my respect for your devotion to the truth would plummet, and i'd begin to consider you as big a joker as me, which is saying a lot . . .

Scrat -- There's a tendency here inA2K and elsewhere (usually in people who are younger and less experienced, I think) to try to cram others into a particular party or set of beliefs. No one I know well has party-orthodox beliefs. I'm a Dem who also believes in most of what the Greens believe, some of what Republicans used to believe, none of what the far right believes -- a little green, a little socialism, a widening streak of libertarianism, and on and on. I dislike being taken to task for a set of beliefs I don't actually hold but which some knucklehead assumes I hold because, oh, if you believe in a stronger EPA, you must be One of Them. Most of us here seem to know quite a lot about the platforms of the major parties as well as that of the Greens. Here is a crib sheet, so to speak, for those who want the details on the Greens: http://www.gp.org/issues/index.html

Discussions in which the issues, with all their variables, are what many of us enjoy, as opposed to nailing someone's ideological affiliation, right? Isn't that more interesting and less confrontational?

Finally, Scrat -- not everyone is obliged to answer all your probing questions, particularly when they are phrased aggressively -- Hey You, You Owe Me An Answer! Every one of us is here on his or her own terms, not yours.

Just a thought about whining ...

People whine and complain not just to accomplish things, but to vent frustration, so they don't beat their dog or shoot up a school or something.

I think American people, as a whole, feel quite helpless when it comes to actually affecting change in the government - and right they should, because our political system doesn't give the individual much power.

So I think it's great that there are places like these where people *can* just complain, and philosophize, and work on their analytical skills and sound off.

I don't know why - just wanted to get that off my chest. <winks>

stasia

I'm gonna ... um ... read the posts now, OK?

Anastasia -- Great thoughts! But we do have power -- it's a muscle which we inherited but which we've stopped using. Use it or lose it.

I think you're right - that potentially Americans have the power to take the power back - as it were. But I don't know if the country's heading in that direction.

- and this is ONLY MY OPINION -

I believe the two-party system is ridiculous - especially in a country as big as ours. I think it only reflects the sort of ... ignorance of the people that the majority of people are willing to take one or the other side - they REJECT alternatives as they come up ("3rd parties") - because as a society, Americans can't get it together enough to get some proper representation for themselves - as realistically representable GROUPS. I think the American people don't know HOW to be communal - which is what it takes to be a society. <watches as all those right-wingers jump on the communist bandwagon>

Uh ... guys - that's not what I meant.

Americans are conditioned to think of themSELVES and their FAMILIES first - WAY ahead of any *real* thought given to the community they live in - they want services and don't want to pay taxes at all, for a start (I relaize I'm generalizing - I'm being pandemic. uh ... polemic. <g>) They are separate from the taxes they pay - as far as they're concerned, taxes are simply "money taken from my paycheck" ... they don't really appreciate what a tax system is until it breaks down. And until the government stops futzing with it all the time, and start thinking in the long term ... none of it's going to get any better.

that's the little nihilist in me. heheheh

I'm a socialist, for the record - but a socialist like Tartarin's a democrat.

I'm an unreconstructed Irish-American, which says it all . . .

Get away from me bottle, boyo, eff ye wanna leave with as many fingers as ye brought in . . .