For all the Bush Admin Bashers...

"Not to insult "?

Well, there's an election happening in 2004. I will be voting against Bush. I just hope I have someone decent to vote FOR.

There is indeed a movement to impeach Bush:

http://www.votetoimpeach.org/

Beyond that, I'm not really sure what you are asking. I am very, very concerned about many aspects of the Bush administration. I can lay out those concerns for you... a simpler tack would be to point you to many threads that elucidate these concerns. Can you name one or two incidents of "whining" that you think are unfounded? Maybe we can start there.

If you think the complaints are unfounded, I'm happy to go into that with you, but I am getting more of a sense that you think people shouldn't complain about Bush, period. Is that true? If so, I heartily disagree, and would like to know your reasoning.

vote Green, pretty much gave up on the democrats. might change my mind if an actual democrat runs for president but will stick with the Greens on state/local elections.

Yeah.. I'm not trying to insult anyone. Its genuine curiosity. I mean seriously, alot that I have read on this forum are people who are whining.

Its a free country. People in the US can contact their represenitives. We have that power. They do represent us right? Isn't actually being active and doing something better than complaining? If not.. Why?

I mean yeah, state your opinion, please. Rip me apart if you like to. I am just curious to see people's views. Is there something wrong with that? If there is I will retract the thread. No hard feelings towards everyone or anyone.

By all means complain. Please. I have no problems with that. I just thought that perhaps there was a more productive way to obtain what goal you would like to have in the white house.

Take the Dubya thread for instance. If there isn't some serious whining on it I dont know what is. Its fine if that is what you want to do. However I would love.. just once to see a thread about what people are DOING to make a differnence, other than all the wrongs.. what are the rights?

I guess I'm the kind of person who wont protest. I'll Petition first before I hold a picket sign.

My opinion is that there is little basis and probability in regard to Bush's impeachment. I also think that there is always a large amount of whining on both sides as well as a tendency to characterize opposing viewpoints as a whine. I frequently catch myself calling objections raised to me whiny.

I think that when I do so I run a great risk of allowing myself to ignore any valid complaints the other person might have. Not that I'd necessarily be inclined to agree with the opposing viewpoint, but characterizing it that way is the easy way out.

What is this thread about except that you DO have problems with that...?

You call it "bashing". I call it telling the truth. You call it "whining". I call it standing up for your beliefs. I, like dyslexia, vote Green locally. I have voted Green for president in some past elections, but you can bet I will vote this time with an aim at unseating the most disasterous pres since Hoover.

Doing something isn't always physical. Discussion IS doing something.

But I get your point, I dislike much of Bush's decisions but don't participate in those discussions.

Gen<

What you call "whining," the U.S. Supreme Court might call "free speech" protected by the First Amendment of our country's Constitution.

Now, the Dubya administration probably would applaud if First Amendment rights were abandoned by the citizenry. After all, Dubya does not want any opposition to his point of view.

Well, Gen, I'm "whining" right here on your thread . . . and I shall continue to whine whenever -- and wherever -- I see First Amendment rights under attack.

I trust you will whine back, but, Gen, that is your right as spelled out in the Constitution.

Gen -- I'm sort of sorry to hear you call someone like me a whiner. I realize you don't mean to offend, but how else are we to take it?

BTW -- both the senators from my state are democrats, and the long-time representative here is also a democrat, and I did sign the impeachment request when it came through a few months ago.

The war with Iraq was the first time the United States has attacked a country unprovoked. We would never have done so without the president urging us on. IT was a mistake, it continues to be a mistake. During the month prior to the attack on 9/11 he spent the whole month of August on vacation. I consider him, as head of state, culpable. Instead he takes on the mantle of power when it suits him and then says, when things aren't going well, that he has said it along. Grrrrrrr.

He is a show-off and a party-boy whose expensive education apparently did not take. He is NOT my idea of a statesman. Everytime I see him smirk on camera or mispronounce another common English word, I wonder anew exactly how he came to be. And if you will recall, when he was "selected" (as that is how he became president) he swore he'd take a middle road since he had not received a mandate. Instead he has polarized this country like no other president in recent times. He and his party-pushers used every trick in the book of dirty politics to get where he's got. He and his cabinet are trying, and partially succeeding, to take apart the Constitution and for that I will never forgive him. He and his puppet-masters are ruining this country for their own material gain. For that how can anyone forgive him?

OH, and by the way, your very nice signature line is not really anonymous, it is a well-known quote from Mark Twain which was plucked for use in a poem by George Roemisch.

Gen

Like you, I am a capital "I" registered Independent.

I happens to consider this administration as depraved and dangerous -- and I certainly have plenty to say in opposition to it and its policies.

Whether my comments constitute whining or not is, I suspect, mostly in the eyes of the listener. I suspect there is a tendency to characterize opposition views as whining in any case.

I do not intend, as many of my friends here have suggested, to vote Green. I will hold my nose if necessary and pull the lever for whomever the Democrats put up in opposition to this man. I consider George Bush and his handlers to be an insult to our Republic -- and I consider it my duty to attempt to be done with him at the next election.

Anyone who helps keep him in office by withholding his/her vote from the opponent who can win, is, in my opinion, assisting in spreading and perpetuating the plague these people represent for our nation.

I know I'm overboard on this, but I simply loathe this man, his administration, and the way they are leading our country.

If the defection of the Dems in Texas did anything personally for me (and it did quite a lot of things!), it reminded me that the Republicans are the worst "projectors" I've come across in a lifetime. Sometimes they do it unconsciously, but more often it's a deliberate behavior. Projection? Ascribing to others your own modus operandi. Whiners? From Nixon days onwards, the Republicans have been whining and whining and whining until someone (Limbaugh?) came along and decided to call the Democrats whiners. I've heard protest, outrage, anger from the Democrats, but whining? Not once. Seems to me this discussion is based on a whine. Or have I got it all wrong?

I'm a LIBERTARIAN! The Libertarian Party has more officeholders and regsitered members than any other 3rd party. Why is it not mentioned as an option? Can this be corrected???

I've been to some Libertarian Party meetings.

I can only hope they will dilute the far right rather than become a force unto themselves. They have a party base that is even further "out there" than the base of the conservatives.

Having said that, though, I guess I ought to acknowledge lots of small"l" libertarianism in myself.

I see myself as a "True Democrat"; one who believes in social and economic justice, environmental protection and religious liberty through separation of church and state.

Oh

My

God

Someone copped to being a Dem . . .

THUD ! ! ! [/color]