Did you have a Spiritual Awakening?

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snood wrote:

My thread asking whether anyone lives without spirituality got locked. It sure seems some folks have a lot to prove.

I'm trying to come up with a way to talk about how people came to believe in whatever spiritual beliefs they ascribe to. I know a lot of people don't believe in anything supernatural, but I'm asking them to please not use this thread to make that point - again, or just show up to ridicule what they read here.

Did anything happen to you in particular that caused you to believe in a higher spiritual authority, or in the existence of a spiritual world?

Twice in my life I've been alone in a room and felt the distinct entrance, lingering and exit of a presence of overwhelming warmth, loving, and comfort. The presence was undeniable to me, and caused in me immediately a feeling of complete repose and assuredness that everything - everything would be alright.

I had another experience that was less dramatic, but that changed my life forever after. I'll share that one if I can get some good feedback in the meantime...

Life. That's how. It wasn't someone telling me I HAD to "turn or burn". It's not fear based as many say it usually is. I've been on both ends of the spectrum here. From the religiously staunch and rigid to dancing in the isles, waving flags and banners, and watching people fall down and roar like a lion. Shocked

Oh yeah, everything in between as well. None of those things convinced me of the "reality of a God". People's actions, words, or even "spirituality" means nothing when it's all said and done. Not to me anyway.

It was a process of time really. Living with the choices I had made in my life. Finding out that good decisions are usually rewarded by good results and bad decisions are generally rewarded with bad results. It was watching people go through all this rigamaroar to try and "please their God" and realizing that kind of stuff was not for me because of the lack of consistency within their personalities. Being one way with "christains" and another with "unbelievers". It was learning that worship (of anything really) is a lifestyle to be lived, not just a few songs you sing inside a building once or twice a week.

I've experienced things that I count as "supernatural" I guess, but really it's not those things that have impacted me quite as much as the subtle, day to day changes that have come about in my life through what I believe. Changes in ideals. Principles. Perspective. Learning to look at life and people through a different kind of "glasses" I guess. Not as "potential souls" to be "won for Christ" and added as a notch on my never-ending belt of accomplishments. But as living, breathing, feeling, thinking, beings that are more than able to make up their minds about what they believe and why. That are more than capable of making good decisions with or without my "God". That are more than capable of doing good things regardless of what or how they believe.

People that really, despite the differences in beliefs, aren't all too different from me. Just like me they are trying to find their way through this world. Through this life. How they arrive to their final destination will be by the path they choose to take, and that's quite alright because it is after all, their life and not mine. I don't hold the power to "save" anyone, or even "rescue them" from "eternal damnation". However, if I believe in God, and I believe the things in the bible, then I believe that if "God" is real and He is more than capable of bringing people around to realize "His Truth". "His Reality." My job is nothing more than to be the best I can be within the context of what I believe. That really is all I can be, and I'm just fine with that.

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I'm "troubled" by the distinction between natural and supernatural. I realize that in our everyday lives we have experiences that are "ORDINARY" (i.e., normal and familiar) as well as experiences that are "EXTRA-ordinary" (i.e., statistically abnormal and conceptually un-familiar). We are also feel impelled to make distinctions in life between things, events, and values that are "SACRED" (another way of saying sacrosanct or above question and rejection) and "PROFANE" (referring to that which is subject to criticism and rejection with impunity).
All this is understandable, but the trouble is that these distinctions seem to give "legitimacy" to the entirely useless and superfluous distinction between THIS-worldliness and OTHER-worldliness, between NATURAL and SUPERNATURAL phenomena. We only have experience of, and evidence for, the former. We can have experience of a this-worldly natural phenomena upon which we choose to place the value of "sacred". And that's fine, a matter of subjective value judgement. But when we argue that there is an otherworldly supernatural realm, we minimize or devalue the reality of our actual lives.
Consider how this informs Snood's thinking in his question: "Did anything happen to you in particular that caused you to believe in a higher spiritual authority, or in the existence of a spiritual world? "
I've had experiences that may be considered--depending on one's perspective--"spiritual." But they have nothing to do with a "higher spiritual authority" or the existence of a distinct "spiritual world."

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JLNobody wrote:

Consider how this informs Snood's thinking in his question: "Did anything happen to you in particular that caused you to believe in a higher spiritual authority, or in the existence of a spiritual world? "
I've had experiences that may be considered--depending on one's perspective--"spiritual." But they have nothing to do with a "higher spiritual authority" or the existence of a distinct "spiritual world."

Your perspective and mine are very similar, as we've seen before JL.

Snood's reply to me, when I made a similar comment several posts back was to "not answer his questions if I felt they didn't apply to me".

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rosborne wrote:

Quote:

Your perspective and mine are very similar, as we've seen before JL.

I've found that my perspective is but a version of JL's, or maybe the other way around, since I am usually able to identify with the ideas he presents. At least the ones I can understand Smile

I think it is inspiring to think of how two different persons can come to the same, or similar, conclusions without any interaction. Disregarding, of course, the time here on A2K, where I've recieved some very intriguing thoughts.

So thanks JL!

Sorry about the digression.

Sorry about the digression.

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Rosborne and Cyracuz, I'm flattered to be in such good company. But I've got to be careful. We may, all three of us, be wrong more often than we would care to admit. And when I say to myself that Rosborne, Cyracuz and others like Fresco share (some of) my views, I run the danger of a stunted future.
But my ego thanks you.

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Add me to that club as well - though all three of you speak with more clarity to these questions than I.

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Oh, Osso. My ego welcomes you whole heartedly.

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rosborne979 wrote:

JLNobody wrote:
Consider how this informs Snood's thinking in his question: "Did anything happen to you in particular that caused you to believe in a higher spiritual authority, or in the existence of a spiritual world? "
I've had experiences that may be considered--depending on one's perspective--"spiritual." But they have nothing to do with a "higher spiritual authority" or the existence of a distinct "spiritual world."

Your perspective and mine are very similar, as we've seen before JL.

Snood's reply to me, when I made a similar comment several posts back was to "not answer his questions if I felt they didn't apply to me".

I'm probably guilty of desiring, and unfairly trying to edit for, a particular kind of reply. And that's not particularly smart in this kind of forum. All things told, I'd rather this thread continued any discussion about anything that people think spiritual than try to answer some stunted question that I came up with to tailor the responses. Thanks for all who have tried to contribute something.

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JLN (et al),

I would add my voice to those who consider they have had "a spiritual experiences" without the involvement of "a deity". There is a chain of consciousness which involves transcendence of "self" towards " holistic inclusion". This "state" has a significantly different quality to "normal experience" and within it concepts like "universal love" are "embraceable".

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Fresco, I don't think of that as so out of normal experience...

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ossobuco,

...maybe not ! .... but "self" tends to predominate for me (whichever me that is Smile

)

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I know I speak naively, but I don't get why "self" gets in the way. I am sometimes selfobservant, but by no means at all times, and I'm guessing experience ("the sky is going nuts") takes precedence.

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Excuse me, fresco, I seem to be arguing, but it I remember right, only tangentially. Carry on...

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snood wrote:

I'm probably guilty of desiring, and unfairly trying to edit for, a particular kind of reply. And that's not particularly smart in this kind of forum. All things told, I'd rather this thread continued any discussion about anything that people think spiritual than try to answer some stunted question that I came up with to tailor the responses...

I noticed this.

Just saying....

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JLNobody wrote:

I'm "troubled" by the distinction between natural and supernatural. I realize that in our everyday lives we have experiences that are "ORDINARY" (i.e., normal and familiar) as well as experiences that are "EXTRA-ordinary" (i.e., statistically abnormal and conceptually un-familiar). We are also feel impelled to make distinctions in life between things, events, and values that are "SACRED" (another way of saying sacrosanct or above question and rejection) and "PROFANE" (referring to that which is subject to criticism and rejection with impunity).
All this is understandable, but the trouble is that these distinctions seem to give "legitimacy" to the entirely useless and superfluous distinction between THIS-worldliness and OTHER-worldliness, between NATURAL and SUPERNATURAL phenomena. We only have experience of, and evidence for, the former. We can have experience of a this-worldly natural phenomena upon which we choose to place the value of "sacred". And that's fine, a matter of subjective value judgement. But when we argue that there is an otherworldly supernatural realm, we minimize or devalue the reality of our actual lives.
Consider how this informs Snood's thinking in his question: "Did anything happen to you in particular that caused you to believe in a higher spiritual authority, or in the existence of a spiritual world? "
I've had experiences that may be considered--depending on one's perspective--"spiritual." But they have nothing to do with a "higher spiritual authority" or the existence of a distinct "spiritual world."

This is an interesting perspective JL, but I'm not sure I understand how arguing that there is a supernatural realm would minimize or devalue the reality of our actual lives?

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I think it is strange that we seem to think of "spiritual experiences" as rare. Some think them absent from their lives.

But what aspect of experiencing reality does not involve the mental being that is essentially consciousness?

It is as JL says, some experiences are more common than others, and have less impact on our mental state.

What is referred to as a "spiritual experience" is often an experience of deep emotional impact. But these experiences can just as easily be rooted in the physical.

To me, the "spiritual experience" is an ongoing process. At times I am more attentive and intuitive, focused on contemplation and "meditation". Other times I live with a more physical approach.

But when it comes down to it I am not entirely certain that "physical vs spiritual experience" is a valid division...

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I have a friend who often says that "everything is spiritual". When she says it, I take her to mean that everything she experiences is spiritual, and that her whole life really has no meaning except from a spiritual perspective. She thinks of everything as having a lesson in it - something for her to take with her on the journey. I tend to agree that the way I go about my everyday is much more important than "arriving" at some destination, and that the encounters and events of my everyday have something to teach me.

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I'd have to say I share your friend's view.

I believe there is a lesson in everything.

And my destination is enlightenment. Maybe it's unlikely I'll ever get there, but I am not letting the destination steal my attention from my journey.
I think the important thing is to be attentive to my environment, both physical and mental, and to seek deeper and more profound paths of truth through experiencing them.

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snood,

Interesting that deists have a "me" which is "here to learn" but holistic spirituality seems to leave that "me" behind.

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Did you have a Spiritual Awakening?

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