Did you have a Spiritual Awakening?

flushd wrote:

Lekatt wrote:

I will post an interesting experience a friend of mine had to see if this thread can continue.
Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

That is a distasteful story. Your 'friend' should be ashamed to be spreading such BS.

There are people with serious mental problems in this world, and 'spiritual awakenings' seem to provide an easy excuse to indulge sickness sometimes.

Each is entitle to their beliefs and free speech. I can't read a story like that and not voice my disguist. It's sickening, and it makes me question the mind anyone who would help to spread the 'cause' of that shiot.

Please try to refrain from calling people names and launching personal attacks on those you disagree with. I don't care about your opinion of me or others who have had spiritual experiences. We are actually very active in helping others like yourself to lead purposeful lives.

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Dr. Tom Wharton, NDE researcher:

"I have trouble believing that the hallucinations of a dying brain can create an experience as life-changing as some that I've heard," Wharton said, referring to the skeptic's view that neurophysiological processes are responsible for the phenomena.

"What impresses me is that the people who have experienced these things seem to have validity, a meaning to their lives, a better outlook," he said. "They are calmer, more positive, more convinced of their purpose. They are comforted and can comfort others."

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Many near death experiencers do volunteer hospice work. They have lost their fear of death and work well with people experiencing the last days of their life. There is an organization, The Twilight Brigade, founded and run by near death experiencers to encourage this volunteer work.

Edit [Moderator]: Links removed

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Frank Apisa wrote:

snood wrote:

Frank, there is no "issue" here to be "resolved", as I see it.

I should have been more specific, Snood. I meant the question of whether or not "spiritual events" are actually "spiritual events" doesn't appear to be resolveable.

I truly do not know if such a thing as "spiritual events" actually exist...but I see absolutely not reason to suppose they don't...or cannot....exist.

I have trouble understanding why some people are so certain they do not exist (or for that matter, that they certainly DO exist)...but we each have to travel the road we select for ourselves.

Quote:
But we agree that the discussion should go on.

It is too interesting to be stopped...and I doubt it will be for a very long time.

I think there are still many twists and turns yet to be taken in this journey.

The question is solveable. There is a great deal of evidence showing consciousness exists after the death of the brain and body. They are called veridical near death experiences. I look forward to the results of all the research being done now. Times are changing, I will show a sample of a veridical NDE below.

Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

This is just one of dozens on record and it is not the most compelling.

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Sticking Around
Seems like there is no end to those who want to argue the issue rather than discuss it. It has always been a mystery to me why the sceptics refuse to read about the research being done now. Nor do they want to read the experiences. We will all face death of the body and experience what comes after. I wonder why they don't want to know everything possible about it. I will stick around to discuss.

Love

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I didn't attack anyone personally or call names. Shocked

I thought my point was valid. There are many cases where 'NDE' labelled as spiritual awakenings are coming from sources whose mental health is questionable or simply ill.
Also, many of these experiences seem to occur at periods of extreme stress.

It is a question of credibility.

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flushd wrote:

I didn't attack anyone personally or call names.

I thought my point was valid. There are many cases where 'NDE' labelled as spiritual awakenings are coming from sources whose mental health is questionable or simply ill.
Also, many of these experiences seem to occur at periods of extreme stress.

It is a question of credibility.

Your point is not valid. People are not mentally ill because they have spiritual experiences. Even the American Psychiatric Foundation concurs. Suggest you do some reading or show some proof of what you say.

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Flush'd point is valid re what she has seen going on.

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Lekatt, You are missing an important factor that helps cause this discussion to disintegrate into an argument. That factor is you. I value your anecdotes, and find them interesting, but you keep trying to "prove" something. Just share the experiences, and stop making the thread a battleground for your personal crusade to show that NDE's are genuine. People can and must decide for themselves.

So when you say things like this:

Quote:

Seems like there is no end to those who want to argue the issue rather than discuss it.

,

remember that you don't help when you frame your parts of the "discussion" like this:

The question is solveable. There is a great deal of evidence showing consciousness exists after the death of the brain and body.

Stop selling it. All that attracts are those decrying it, and the vicious cycle continues...

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Check to Snood on all that, I surely agree (not that/and so on).

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Lekatt wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
snood wrote:

Frank, there is no "issue" here to be "resolved", as I see it.

I should have been more specific, Snood. I meant the question of whether or not "spiritual events" are actually "spiritual events" doesn't appear to be resolveable.

I truly do not know if such a thing as "spiritual events" actually exist...but I see absolutely not reason to suppose they don't...or cannot....exist.

I have trouble understanding why some people are so certain they do not exist (or for that matter, that they certainly DO exist)...but we each have to travel the road we select for ourselves.

Quote:
But we agree that the discussion should go on.

It is too interesting to be stopped...and I doubt it will be for a very long time.

I think there are still many twists and turns yet to be taken in this journey.

The question is solveable. There is a great deal of evidence showing consciousness exists after the death of the brain and body.

That is absolute nonsense.

I defy you to show actual evidence (not anecdotes) that consciousness exists after the death of the brain and body.

Quote:

They are called veridical near death experiences. I look forward to the results of all the research being done now. Times are changing, I will show a sample of a veridical NDE below.

Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

This is just one of dozens on record and it is not the most compelling.

This is an absurd example...and I seriously doubt there is anything more compelling...or you would have furnished it.

Neither you nor the doctors KNOW the individual was DEAD...BRAIN DEAD, as you put it.

And I needn't remind you that the episode was anecdotal. You have absoluely no idea how much embellishment was done to the story by any of the participants. Did Jesus rise from the dead because people said he did? Was Mary assumed bodily into heaven because people said she was? Did Mary appear at Lourdes because people say she did? Are Yeti, Big Foot, the Loch Ness monster real because people say they've seen them?

Quote:

Seems like there is no end to those who want to argue the issue rather than discuss it. It has always been a mystery to me why the sceptics refuse to read about the research being done now. Nor do they want to read the experiences. We will all face death of the body and experience what comes after. I wonder why they don't want to know everything possible about it. I will stick around to discuss.

I always has been a mystery to me why naive people assume those of use who are skeptical are refusing to read or consider the nonsense they put forward as evidence.

We all will die.

Every indication is that what happens after we die is a mystery.

Every indication is that those who "believe" some kind of existence goes on...are guessing....

...and that those who "believe" that is the end of everything for each individual...are guessing.

Stop trying to make it sound as though you have some special knowledge of what happens...unless you can establish that you do indeed have that special knowledge.

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OK, everyone is right. I am wrong. I quit.

Read about it in the news.

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That's a childish attitude, Lekatt. Your anecdotes are welcome. I welcome your passion and belief in these anecdotes. It's just the trying to convince others of their genuineness that gets into the useless back and forth.

It's not just you - I wish others didn't feel like they have to patronizingly remind us over and over that "we can't know" anything about anything. That doesn't promote the discussion either.

I think its possible that we can all just share our spiritual experiences or our opinions about spiritual experiences without engaging in the endless nattering about whether they are real or whether we can know they're real.

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snood wrote:

That's a childish attitude, Lekatt. Your anecdotes are welcome. I welcome your passion and belief in these anecdotes. It's just the trying to convince others of their genuineness that gets into the useless back and forth.

It's not just you - I wish others didn't feel like they have to patronizingly remind us over and over that "we can't know" anything about anything. That doesn't promote the discussion either.

Well perhaps the side that seems intent on presenting their side of the issue as certainty...can get over that.

There is no more inportant piece of information being shared in this thread than the fact that no matter what considerations we have about any of this stuff...we do not know for certain if there is a spiritual component to reality. That applies to the people certain there is a spiritual component...and to those sure there is not.

And to suppose that mentioning that often DOES NOT PROMOTE DISCUSSION...is to be oblivious of the reality of what happens in these threads. It promotes a hell of a lot of discussion.

Quote:

I think its possible that we can all just share our spiritual experiences or our opinions about spiritual experiences without engaging in the endless nattering about whether they are real or whether we can know they're real.

I think even more importantly...we can all post in these threads without having you CONSTANTLY try to micro manage them, Snood. You seem to be much, much more addicted to trying to shut off discussion that you don't like...than I am to reminding people that we are all guessing on these kinds of questions.

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Your opinion that telling us we can't know whether these experiences are real- promotes discussion, and that "There is no more inportant piece of information being shared in this thread", is noted.

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Bump

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snood wrote:

Bump

I like your new avatar, Snood.

It is the best one you've ever used.

I'm assuming it is you.

You look like someone I'd enjoy having a drink...coffee, of course...with.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

snood wrote:
Bump

I like your new avatar, Snood.

It is the best one you've ever used.

I'm assuming it is you.

You look like someone I'd enjoy having a drink...coffee, of course...with.

Hey, Frank - Y'know what?

Nevermind. Thanks - glad you like it.

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Did you have a Spiritual Awakening?

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