1
   

CIA Protected Nazi War Criminals

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 10:07 am
Asherman wrote:
Talk about old news! That various parts of the U.S. government de-Nazified and gave a clean bill of health to a number of Nazis was known as early as 1948, fifty-four years ago.


hamburger wrote:
i can understand your being astonished , perhaps even being dismayed at the connection between former nazis (serving in the germen government post WW II) and american government entities - perhaps it would be more accurate to say western allied governments [..]

perhaps i should note that those nazi officials and also some generals did not fall into the category of major war-criminals - at least not at that time .
they were mainly considered 'cogs in the wheel '.


Asherman - It seems to me, from how the news is presented, that the big news here is about West-Germany and America having known about Adolf Eichmann, too - that, specifically is presented as the new revelation.

And Hamburger, Eichmann was no mere "cog in the wheel"...

Bernard - you're reaching... try to at least pretend you're keeping to the subject at hand... nobody's denying that what's decribed in blueflame's article of this thread did actually happen..
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 10:15 am
Yes, nimh, It may have happened but not in the way it is presented and that is all of the difference, isn' t it?
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 10:29 am
What strikes me as most important about American relations with Hitler is not just that some of our leading elites armed and funded his rise to power and invested in his military industrial complex and even fueled his side throghout the war, but these same corporations and descendants have pulled off the same "mistake" repeatedly since. Saddam and bin Laden being the two most current examples of madmen armed and funded by Americans. There's a pattern in history of Americans arming known madmen and profiting off the blowback. It's a practice that will continue until we face up to the betrayal and put an end to it. There were better candidates than Hitler or Saddam for America to back.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 11:02 am
blueflame1 wrote:
What strikes me as most important about American relations with Hitler is not just that some of our leading elites armed and funded his rise to power and invested in his military industrial complex and even fueled his side throghout the war, but these same corporations and descendants have pulled off the same "mistake" repeatedly since. Saddam and bin Laden being the two most current examples of madmen armed and funded by Americans. There's a pattern in history of Americans arming known madmen and profiting off the blowback. It's a practice that will continue until we face up to the betrayal and put an end to it. There were better candidates than Hitler or Saddam for America to back.


So, Blueflame, you are suggesting that we should put an end to the Iranian uprising now instead of supporting the government there?

That is surprising to me considering your past posts.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 11:12 am
Mr. McGentrix- May I respectfully suggest that you read as many of Mr. BF's posts as you can before you ask him such a question. I am sure you may not understand that Mr. BF, through hard and continued research has found that President Bush is a crypto-Nazi. If you understand that, Mr. McGentrix, you need to ask no questions of Mr. BF since his entire philosophy stems from that idea.

He is, of course, completely incorrect and relies on the most irreputable sources to "prove" his thesis. His unrelenting hatred of the President is not based on rational grounds but rather on the incredible and unproven thesis that the Bush family was directly involved in the process when American Doctors( as Mr. BF alleges) created AIDS in the laboratory and then, of course, millions died through direct actions by those doctors in Africa.

Mr. BF's problem with President Bush can be found, if you read his posts carefully, to be a personal one..That is not a crime, of course but Mr. B-F's charges, as I noted, are based on the most irreputable evidence.

Cheers, Mr. McGentrix!!!
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 12:07 pm
blueflame1 wrote:
Of course OmSiig gotta ignore the substance of the Dulles article.

OK, I checked your link.
( I don 't, usually, because u r forever
drawing from this paranoid, pinko, out-of-touch-with-reality drivel. )

Everything that happened b4
Hitler declared war upon us cannot possibly be treason.

I am not interested in anyone evading taxes.
If I found out that u were doing it,
your secret wud be safe with me.

WWII has been over in Europe since May 8, 1945.
The nazis lost: end of that war,
but the beginning of WWIII,
which did not end until 12/24/91.

The logically correct and moral
( in terms of duty to American citizens ) thing for America 's leadership
to do is to fight WWIII as aggressively as possible
to ensure American victory,
NOT to keep fighting the last war that is over and finished.

Fighting the 3rd World War may very well include
alliances with former enemy; alliances shift.
Such has been human nature since prehistoric times.

Apparently u think that we shud have obsessively hated the nazis
too passionately to accept their help against the commies.

As an American citizen,
I care about living my life in freedom from communist slavery
too much to be so fussy. To the extent that former nazis ( like von Braun )
helped us against the commies, we were better off: HOORAY !


I take pride in the first man on the Moon being an American,
thanx to Dr. von Braun.
I wish I cud take his hand in honor n friendship.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 12:26 pm
BernardR wrote:
Om Sig- You can't ignore the substance of the Dulles Article. Why, that's as bad as ignoring the substance of the idiocy peddled with regard to the etiology of AIDS. You do remember, I am sure, the furious efforts of the more rabid members of the homosexual community to show that AIDS was created by American Doctors in the laboratory, thus showing that the US government, as hateful as always, wanted to destroy innocent people in the name of outdated religious beliefs.

Now that the evidence has clearly shown that the HIV virus originated in Africa at least as early as the late fifties whereas the American Doctors who supposedly created the Virus were suspected to have designed it in the early eighties, the purveyors of that myth are flummoxed.

And as for the Dulles Book, On Sig, I read an old copy and threw it in the circular file along with the book that FDR had set up Pearl Harbor. I class this unproven and unprovable garbage with the tales of people who claim they have been kidnapped by aliens.

Yes; I saw on the news, a few nights ago,
that it was confirmed that AIDS came from contact
with chimpanzees in Africa.



However, I do believe that Roosevelt set up the Fleet at Pearl Harbor.
He had campaigned on a pacifistic, isolationistic platform in 1940;
hypocritically, I 'm sure. He knew that American entry into the war
in Europe was imperative, but he was not man enuf
to say so openly.

My examination of the evidence leads me to believe
that he provoked the Japs, as a backdoor entry into the war in Europe.
It worked.
David
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 01:05 pm
nimh wrote :
"And Hamburger, Eichmann was no mere "cog in the wheel"...

he sure was not . i never included eichmann as a "cog in the wheel" !
while of course i'm not sure , i doubt that dr adenauer would have considered eichmann just a cog in the wheel . perhaps we will learn more about this at some time , and it may turn out that i am wrong .

perhaps i have to be a little more precise in what i want to say :
when WW II ended , the soviet-union ceased to be considered an ally of the western nations - the united states and britain in particular .
perehaps that was a dumb way for the west to look upon the soviet-union , but that's the way the western nations (governments) saw things .

germany was certainly considered a 'buffer-zone' between east and west , and the allies were eager to see a creditable german government installed in the western part of germany .
- that was step 1 .
step 2 was the re-armament of germany and its admittance to NATO ,
which again , the western allies were very much in favour of .

the western allies certainly found a helpmate in dr adenauer to achieve their goals .
but it must also be said that dr adenauer had some disagreements with
with certain policies of the allies .

on a personal level he seemed to get along very well with winston churchill and general de gaulle . general de gaulle even managed to bring tears to the eyes of dr adenauer . the occasion was the signing of the french-german 'friedship' pact .
here is what the french journalist pierre viansson-ponte reported :
dr adenauer may perhaps be the only man ever to have been kissed by the general . the document had been signed ; suddenly the general pulled in his rather respectable stomach and reached out towards dr adenauer .
he pulled adenauer towards him and placed two rather loud kisses on his cheecks . tears started to fill the eyes of the german chancellor as his hand was reaching for de gaulle's hand . "
it must have been quite a sight ! adenauer was usually not the sentimental type !

the relation between president kennedy and dr adenauer were not nearly as cordial , since adenauer suspected that kennedy would be willing to offer concessoins to the soviet-union regarding the german independence in exchange for better relations with the soviet-union .
(adenauer had hoped that nixon would become president ).

there is no question in mind that eichmann and many other nazis were not just war-criminals but indeed 'criminals' of th worst kind .

whether the re-establishment of the german government could have been achieved in a better way at that time , i do not know . certainly there are lots of theories now , indicating that a better job could have been done .

what i seem to keep coming back to is the 'animosity' (really , a fear of each other) between the soviet-union and the western allies ; imo that was the driving force resulting in the split-up of germany and the re-armament of germany (in both the west and the east).

have i done a better job of explaining the way i see things (through the rear-view mirror , to some extent) ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:29 pm
hamburger wrote:
nimh wrote :
"And Hamburger, Eichmann was no mere "cog in the wheel"...

he sure was not . i never included eichmann as a "cog in the wheel" !
while of course i'm not sure , i doubt that dr adenauer would have considered eichmann just a cog in the wheel . perhaps we will learn more about this at some time , and it may turn out that i am wrong .

I appreciate and largely agree with the larger context you sketch, but in reply to your earlier 'it was about cog in the wheel type people', I had to point out that the information that this thread is about is quite specifically about Eichmann:

Quote:
The United States was aware that West Germany held information on the whereabouts of Adolf Eichmann in the 1950s, but chose to keep the matter secret, fearing that the arrest of the Nazi fugitive might lead to embarrassing revelations about links between senior German officials and other Nazis.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:33 pm
McGentrix wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
What strikes me as most important about American relations with Hitler is not just that some of our leading elites armed and funded his rise to power and invested in his military industrial complex and even fueled his side throghout the war, but these same corporations and descendants have pulled off the same "mistake" repeatedly since. Saddam and bin Laden being the two most current examples of madmen armed and funded by Americans. There's a pattern in history of Americans arming known madmen and profiting off the blowback. It's a practice that will continue until we face up to the betrayal and put an end to it. There were better candidates than Hitler or Saddam for America to back.

So, Blueflame, you are suggesting that we should put an end to the Iranian uprising now instead of supporting the government there?

McGentrix, huh? I've read blueflame's post and your reply three times now, and I just dont see how you get from one to the other. Could you explain?

The US should not have funded Saddam with billions of dollars. That seems a pretty clear-cut stance to me, and one, at least, that I can easily agree with blueflame on. What's the contention?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:40 pm
BernardR wrote:
Yes, nimh, It may have happened but not in the way it is presented and that is all of the difference, isn' t it?

Well there doesnt seem to be much disagreement in the presentation of how it happened:

Google News: all 234 related items re "CIA, West Germans knew where Eichmann was hiding"


-----------------

CIA Suppressed Information About Nazi Fugitive
Deutsche Welle, Germany - 3 hours ago
Newly-released CIA documents show that the US kept mum about Adolf Eichmann's whereabouts to protect a high-ranking German official with a dubious past. ...

CIA kept Nazi secret
Advertiser Adelaide, Australia - 5 hours ago
THE CIA suppressed the whereabouts of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann to help protect high ranking West German officials from possible revelations about their ...

CIA, West Germans knew where Eichmann was hidingCIA hid Nazi's identity
Sydney Morning Herald, Australia - 7 hours ago
THE CIA took no action after learning the pseudonym and whereabouts of the fugitive war criminal Adolf Eichmann in 1958, according to CIA documents that shed ...

Report: CIA knew Eichmann location
Monsters and Critics.com, UK - 7 hours ago
WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- The CIA knew in 1958 where Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann was hiding, but ignored the intelligence, The New York Times ...

CIA knew where Eichmann was hiding, documents say
Globe and Mail, Canada - 13 hours ago
The CIA kept quiet about the whereabouts of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in the 1950s for fear he might expose undercover anti-Communist efforts in West ...

CIA Ties With Ex-Nazis Shown
Washington Post, United States - 15 hours ago
The CIA organized Cold War spy networks that included former Nazis and failed to act on a 1958 report that fugitive Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann was living ...

US suppressed Eichmann whereabouts
Washington Post, United States - 21 hours ago
By David Morgan. WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The CIA suppressed the whereabouts of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann to help protect high ...

CIA knew where Eichmann was two years before he was caught
Independent, UK - 22 hours ago
By Rupert Cornwell in Washington. The CIA knew the whereabouts of the Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in Argentina more than two ...

Documents Shed Light on CIA's Use of Ex-NazisCIA Helped Nazi Eichmann Hide
Spiegel Online, Germany - 7 hours ago
American and West German intelligence remained silent about the whereabouts of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in the 1950s to protect anti-communist ...

CIA covered for Nazi war criminals during Cold War
St. Petersburg Times, FL - 10 hours ago
Efforts to use former Nazis as spies led the CIA to keep mum about the location of criminals such as Adolf Eichmann. By ASSOCIATED PRESS. ...

Newly released papers show CIA hid Eichmann whereabouts
Baltimore Sun, United States - 14 hours ago
WASHINGTON // Determined to win the Cold War, the CIA kept quiet about the whereabouts of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in the 1950s for fear he might ...

CIA hid Nazi criminal Eichmann's locale in Cold WarDocuments: CIA Knew Whereabouts of Nazi Fugitive
ProgressiveU.org, CA - 17 hours ago
Recently declassified papers reveal that the Central Intelligence Agency knew the whereabouts and alias of fugitive Holocaust overseer Adolf Eichmann in 1958 ...

Papers: CIA knew of Eichmann whereabouts
Sky Valley Journal, USA - 23 hours ago
By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 10 minutes ago. WASHINGTON - Determined to win the Cold War, the CIA kept quiet about ...

Files show CIA didn't pass tip on Eichmann
International Herald Tribune, France - 5 hours ago
WASHINGTON The CIA took no action after learning the pseudonym and whereabouts of the fugitive Holocaust administrator Adolf Eichmann in 1958, according to CIA ...

CIA helped protect Nazi connections
The Age, Australia - 7 hours ago
THE CIA suppressed the whereabouts of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann to help protect high-ranking West German officials from possible revelations about their ...

-----------------

Can someone spell denial?
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 04:37 pm
Why wouldn't the CIA protect Eichman, Barbie and Mengele? Dulles, Rockefeller and others had been doing business with these nazis for years and continued after the war. Mengele had long been funded by Rockefeller including Mengele's experiments in the 30s. Americans like Henry Ford, Dupont, Rockefeller and Walker/Bush had been at the forefront of the American eugenics movement for decades before Hitler wrote Mein Kampf and his master race theories found common ground with them. Hitler quoted passages from Henry Ford's book The International Jew and had stacks of Ford's book outside his office so his visters could take one home. Hitler had Ford's portrait hanging on the wall behind his desk. When Hitler's campaign was floundering and broke the Dulles brothers stepped in and led the bankers who paid off Hitler's debts, armed his thugs and bankrolled his campaign. Decades later Poppy Bush and company pulled the same stunt with Saddam and hired bin Laden too. It's what these war merchants do. Diviide and conquer, arm all sides and turn the people into killing machines.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2006 04:42 am
Why, if you are right, nimh, the World Court at the Hague must be immediately convened to try those in the CIA who did those terrible things. Have you heard when the trials are beginning?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2006 08:39 am
BernardR wrote:
Why, if you are right, nimh,

You mean, if me and the hundreds of international press agencies, newspapers and TV stations all literally reporting the same finding - not to mention the the CIA itself, whose own released documents show this, are right?

BernardR wrote:
the World Court at the Hague must be immediately convened to try those in the CIA who did those terrible things. Have you heard when the trials are beginning?

If you are referring to the International Criminal Court, it was established on the explicit condition that it would not be authorised to start any case dealing with events from before the establishment of the Court. So anything related with these revelations is by definition outside the ICC's authority.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2006 09:56 am
blueflame1 wrote:
Why wouldn't the CIA protect Eichman, Barbie and Mengele? Dulles, Rockefeller and others had been doing business with these nazis for years and continued after the war. Mengele had long been funded by Rockefeller including Mengele's experiments in the 30s. Americans like Henry Ford, Dupont, Rockefeller and Walker/Bush had been at the forefront of the American eugenics movement for decades before Hitler wrote Mein Kampf and his master race theories found common ground with them. Hitler quoted passages from Henry Ford's book The International Jew and had stacks of Ford's book outside his office so his visters could take one home. Hitler had Ford's portrait hanging on the wall behind his desk. When Hitler's campaign was floundering and broke the Dulles brothers stepped in and led the bankers who paid off Hitler's debts, armed his thugs and bankrolled his campaign. Decades later Poppy Bush and company pulled the same stunt with Saddam and hired bin Laden too. It's what these war merchants do. Diviide and conquer, arm all sides and turn the people into killing machines.


This reeks of the ravings of a very sick mind.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:06 am
But, Mr.Nimh, there must be something the peace-loving nations of the world can do. How can the CIA be allowed to continue to behave like that?

Who do they think they are? The Gestapo? The O. G. P. U?

We don't need a spy agency. If Hillary wins, she will see to it that the CIA is quashed!!!!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 03:32 am
BernardR wrote:
But, Mr.Nimh, there must be something the peace-loving nations of the world can do. How can the CIA be allowed to continue to behave like that?

What in heavens name are you on about? This article and thread are about something that happened sixty years ago!

I dont get it. Whats the big deal about owning up about something your country's intelligence service did sixty years ago, and has now itself released the documents about?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 06:08 am
nimh wrote:
BernardR wrote:
But, Mr.Nimh, there must be something the peace-loving nations of the world can do. How can the CIA be allowed to continue to behave like that?

What in heavens name are you on about? This article and thread are about something that happened sixty years ago!

I dont get it. Whats the big deal about owning up about something your country's intelligence service did sixty years ago, and has now itself released the documents about?


Lord have mercy Nimh...you can't REASON with it!
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 11:00 pm
Well, what do you propose, Mr. Nimh?

I have some alternatives-

l. The CIA was, by far, the most vicious and immoral organization in the world sixty years ago. Therefore, the present administration must give recompense to the persons injured by those evil bunch of people.

2. The CIA was, as most organizations of its type, created to defend the USA from its enemies, external and internal, and as such, engaged in activities which only peaceniks and loonies would proscribe is therefore exempt from criticism based on old data.

3. By creating the CIA and letting it commit all of those heinous sins, the USA proved that it is far inferior to the countries in the rest of the world, especially Germany, the Soviet Union and China, with regard to its treatment of its own people, so the USA should immediately abolish the CIA.
************************************************************
Which one of the three would you choose, Nimh? Or has the continual immorality in the Netherlands made the people in that country impervious to civilization and culture?

The left wing, desperate to find anything that could denigrate the present Administration, hopes that the data released will somehow restrict the efforts of the present administration to gather data in order to protect its citizens.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 11:03 pm
I hope that Dlowan can teach me about "reason". I don't really think she is sincere about her touting of "reason". If she was, she would use her superior reason to destroy each one of my posts with her sterling intellect.

Instead she is obviously afraid to debate and hides behind one liners.
0 Replies
 
 

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