Bible vs. Science

Interview with Richard Dawkins:

Richard is'nt down with Nietzsche apparently.

"Going back to Nietzsche, in Beyond Good and Evil he said: 'When [Christians] gave comfort to the suffering, courage to the oppressed and despairing they have preserved too much of that which ought to perish [They have] worked at the preservation of everything sick and suffering, which means the corruption of the European race.'

Yes. I want to disown that very much. I've just said and I'll say it again: I don't think that following the dictates of Darwinism is necessarily what we ought to be doing. I disagree with Nietzsche.

And

Suppose some lads break into an old man's house and kill him. Suppose they say: "Well, we accept the evolutionist worldview. He was old and sick, and he didn't contribute anything to society." How would you show them that what they had done was wrong?

Richards says:

You credit them with rather more RATIONAL THOUGHT than I suspect the real thugs would have had.

If somebody used my views(ie. rational thought) to justify a completely self - centred lifestyle, which involved trampling all over other people in any way they chose roughly what, I suppose, at a sociological level social Darwinists did - I think I would be fairly hard put to it to argue on purely intellectual grounds.

very revealing...

for more goto...

http://www.damaris.org/content/content.php?type=5&id=102

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Ditto?

How long did it take to think that one up. You're becoming a specialist in essays of burnt offerings.

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If this was a ditto I was'nt aware.

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spendius wrote:

Ditto.

Sorry, I do sometimes have the mistaken assumption that people posting on a particular thread are actually following the thread.

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Lightwizard wrote:

spendius wrote:
Ditto.

Sorry, I do sometimes have the mistaken assumption that people posting on a particular thread are actually following the thread.

I guess some don't.

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It was only five posts back but I should still have quoted spendius' lame response. He's likely now in the pub downing one ale after another.

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Lightwizard wrote:

It was only five posts back but I should still have quoted spendius' lame response. He's likely now in the pub downing one ale after another.

Ah.....freedom. lol

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Yes we all have the right and privelege to go to the pub and come back with a broad on each arm, one uglier than the other -- likely why all the clocks stopped along the route home.

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The wife would not agree. lol

Ah...To be single.......

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farmerman wrote:

Quote:
You brainwash and indoctrinate innocent minds into your ridiculous ideology and by the time they're 20 years old they're as mentally screwed up and deranged as the brain damaged freaks who raised them.
Mny times this backfires on the indoctrinators. There are many of my colleagues who were raised in strict Evangelical Christian households, only to , at some time in their young lives, begin to question the stories, then they go through a severe review of their old time definitions of truth.
Ive had a number of really good students who came from those kinds of religious backgrounds. Some whose parents and families have actually cut off ties with their own kids. Sometimes , in a family, finding out that your kid is studying to be an "EVOLUTIONIST" is like having the kid come out of the closet. .

When my daughter entered college, we saw to it that she had been taught both the creationist viewpoint and the evolutionist viewpoint. A creationist to the core, she scored in the 99th percentile on the science portion of the ACT.

She also was and is still a committed Christian and we're not afraid of any questions she has had or may have throughout her life. She probably has had and will have the same questions everyone in life has, eh?

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real life wrote:

farmerman wrote:
Quote:
You brainwash and indoctrinate innocent minds into your ridiculous ideology and by the time they're 20 years old they're as mentally screwed up and deranged as the brain damaged freaks who raised them.
Mny times this backfires on the indoctrinators. There are many of my colleagues who were raised in strict Evangelical Christian households, only to , at some time in their young lives, begin to question the stories, then they go through a severe review of their old time definitions of truth.
Ive had a number of really good students who came from those kinds of religious backgrounds. Some whose parents and families have actually cut off ties with their own kids. Sometimes , in a family, finding out that your kid is studying to be an "EVOLUTIONIST" is like having the kid come out of the closet. .

When my daughter entered college, we saw to it that she had been taught both the creationist viewpoint and the evolutionist viewpoint. A creationist to the core, she scored in the 99th percentile on the science portion of the ACT.

She also was and is still a committed Christian and we're not afraid of any questions she has had or may have throughout her life. She probably has had and will have the same questions everyone in life has, eh?

I pity the poor girl.

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real life wrote:

When my daughter entered college, we saw to it that she had been taught both the creationist viewpoint and the evolutionist viewpoint. A creationist to the core, she scored in the 99th percentile on the science portion of the ACT.

Doesn't say much. I knew a guy who did well in science and he believed in the rubbish statements of his holy text, that milk is a waste product or some such nonsense.

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rl

Quote:

When my daughter entered college, we saw to it that she had been taught both the creationist viewpoint and the evolutionist viewpoint. A creationist to the core, she scored in the 99th percentile on the science portion of the ACT.

I assume there werent any thermodynamics questions on the test :wink: .
When she removes herself from college, the real test comes. She has a career choice based upon her training and grad opportunities. She will have to make a choice then (if shes in the sciences). Like I said, I have colleagues who enetered college having been trained in conservative Christian schools and chose the earth sciences because of their growing doubts as kids . We often have discussions of "how did you arrive at your career decisions"

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farmerman wrote:

real life wrote:
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
You brainwash and indoctrinate innocent minds into your ridiculous ideology and by the time they're 20 years old they're as mentally screwed up and deranged as the brain damaged freaks who raised them.
Mny times this backfires on the indoctrinators. There are many of my colleagues who were raised in strict Evangelical Christian households, only to , at some time in their young lives, begin to question the stories, then they go through a severe review of their old time definitions of truth.
Ive had a number of really good students who came from those kinds of religious backgrounds. Some whose parents and families have actually cut off ties with their own kids. Sometimes , in a family, finding out that your kid is studying to be an "EVOLUTIONIST" is like having the kid come out of the closet. .

When my daughter entered college, we saw to it that she had been taught both the creationist viewpoint and the evolutionist viewpoint. A creationist to the core, she scored in the 99th percentile on the science portion of the ACT.

She also was and is still a committed Christian and we're not afraid of any questions she has had or may have throughout her life. She probably has had and will have the same questions everyone in life has, eh?

I assume there werent any thermodynamics questions on the test Wink .
When she removes herself from college, the real test comes. She has a career choice based upon her training and grad opportunities. She will have to make a choice then (if shes in the sciences). Like I said, I have colleagues who enetered college having been trained in conservative Christian schools and chose the earth sciences because of their growing doubts as kids . We often have discussions of "how did you arrive at your career decisions"

She probably understands evolution better than some who are certified to teach it in the public schools.

Wandeljw posted this a while back; those who followed the Evolution? How? thread may recall it:

Quote:

Teaching Darwin & Evolution In Climate Of Controversy
(New York Academy Of Sciences Conference, April 21-22 at John Jay College)

Not since the infamous Scopes "monkey" trial of the 1920's has the controversy over the teaching of evolution exposed deep divides between sections of the American public. The Kansas Board of Education's announcement that intelligent design would be taught alongside evolution ignited a nationwide debate over what constitutes science education and what are actually nonscientific approaches to education. At a time when many studies show that the U.S. lags behind other countries in the quality of its science education, the definition of what science education is and what it is not has more serious ramifications than ever before.

What are the basic tenets of the concept of evolution and how does understanding evolution play an essential role in comprehending science, and in particular, modern biology? How can science educators from elementary schools to college campuses respond to challenges from those who claim that intelligent design is as valid a theory as evolution? How can we prepare and support teachers so that they will be able to teach evolution effectively despite the controversy? How can state and local officials in charge of education policy respond to attempts by religious groups and others who seek to change the investigative nature of science education?

To assist science educators from all levels of American education as well as state and local education officials responsible for their schools' science curriculum respond effectively to the controversy surrounding the teaching of evolution, the New York Academy of Sciences will present a two-day symposium, Teaching Evolution and the Nature of Science, on Friday-Saturday, April 21-22, 2006, at the Gerald W. Lynch Theater, John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

emphasis mine

However, her greater interest was in history and that's what she chose to major in at college.

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Wars are evidence of spiritual unrest within the ideologies of peoples and cultures. Wars are caused by mental/spiritual disease.

I want to refer back to the "God spot" concept of the mind...

Every healthy human has a physical God spot in their brain. It is where each and every conscious human being places their own personal ideology of God.

Even a non ideology is still an ideology.

So it is this lack of unity/dis-harmony and the inaccuracy (lies) imperceptions of the "true" God that are often placed in the mind (God spot) and then "believed".

Because we believe error does not negate God. It only negates God in our minds. It breaks the unity of the spirit. The fact that we have evolved to have faith is evidence of a survival mechanism in the brain. That God when properly perceived becomes a guide for survival, unity and peace.

The existence of the God spot, is your physical "evidence" you seek in science. Wars are collective evidence of spiritual discord.

Though most of the brain is used to record scientific observation there is the part that it's only purpose is for belief or even disbelief in a deity.

The imbalance in the brain only shows our own partiality to science over God but it also shows that an ethical God is the critical factor for an equally ethical approach to science.

The God spot is where our own thoughts are compared to that of the spirit as we know it. So a life with out spirituality would be a life without part of your brain. This God spot is also connected to our sense of touch and our feelings. So when we do not feel a good presence of God we become bitter and start to war within our minds. This war is then manifested into the physical world.

Instead of debating if spirituality really exists it may be more beneficial to pursue true spirituality. The universal God and the universal human.

"True" spirituality is the way to unity of mind and unity of mind is the way to peace.

I know this is not a happy subject in many respects. It makes one feel a bit unsettling. But when the feeling passes you may realize there is some truth here.

We need to not only "know" God but we need to know the "right" God. We need to know this God intimately and every single last detail (just as in science) has to harmonize with the reality of what God really is.

This is the way of holiness. Many are deprived of this. Thus they journey down the way of sin and death.

Pr 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Comment:
The way of holiness is a life with true spirituality perceived in the God spot and believed in the seat of the will..

Isaiah 35:8
And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

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I doubt that Moses grew up to look like Charlton Heston. He would have grown up to give himself away as a Jew as in that period of history there hadn't been the extent of inter-breeding with other peoples and Moses would have been pegged by his teens as a Jew, and not a true son of Pharoah. The story is a fable -- talk about little historical proof for Jesus!
There is exactly zero for Moses. Yeah, I know, Cecile B. DeMille in "The Ten Commandments" made certain the dialogue ripped and altered from the Bible stated that Pharaoh was pissed when he found out and had all the references to Moses chiseled off all the monuments. There were few Jews in Egypt at that time and they most certainly were not slaves -- Eyptians did not historically keep slaves. They made captured enemies into citizens, gave them jobs and in some cases, offered them extra work to build monuments It makes good theater but if one wants to believe that, I hear that bridge in NYC is up for sale again.

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Lightwizard wrote:

I doubt that Moses grew up to look like Charlton Heston. He would have grown up to give himself away as a Jew as in that period of history there hadn't been the extent of inter-breeding with other peoples and Moses would have been pegged by his teens as a Jew, and not a true son of Pharoah. The story is a fable -- talk about little historical proof for Jesus!
There is exactly zero for Moses. Yeah, I know, Cecile B. DeMille in "The Ten Commandments" made certain the dialogue ripped and altered from the Bible stated that Pharaoh was pissed when he found out and had all the references to Moses chiseled off all the monuments. There were few Jews in Egypt at that time and they most certainly were not slaves -- Eyptians did not historically keep slaves. They made captured enemies into citizens, gave them jobs and in some cases, offered them extra work to build monuments It makes good theater but if one wants to believe that, I hear that bridge in NYC is up for sale again.

The stories of Moses may primarily be being told to remind people that the Egyptians borrowed their religion (through Cush and Nimrod) from the Babylonians who stole and perverted the God of Noah.

Also I might add that the "plagues" supposedly from God are being studied by science today as "history" because the sequence of events are scientifically accurate.

Even to the first born dying, if they Hebrews were fasting and the Egyptians "first born" were exclusively in ritual eating of the "first fruits" of harvest which were contaminated by the nile then the first born would have perished. So it was God who by an arbitrary opposing custom of fasting spared the first born males of the the Hebrew people their lives.

The plagues were brought on by the Egyptians themselves anyway, God only acted as a deliverer. Such is the case in most of the OT. The underlying spiritual powers were positioned differently in the OT then they are today in the NT.

One must always properly discern the true God's motivations and actual involvement in any OT story...

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http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/tutdeath1.jpg

Does king Tut look Jewish?

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RexRed wrote:

Lightwizard wrote:
I doubt that Moses grew up to look like Charlton Heston. He would have grown up to give himself away as a Jew as in that period of history there hadn't been the extent of inter-breeding with other peoples and Moses would have been pegged by his teens as a Jew, and not a true son of Pharoah. The story is a fable -- talk about little historical proof for Jesus!
There is exactly zero for Moses. Yeah, I know, Cecile B. DeMille in "The Ten Commandments" made certain the dialogue ripped and altered from the Bible stated that Pharaoh was pissed when he found out and had all the references to Moses chiseled off all the monuments. There were few Jews in Egypt at that time and they most certainly were not slaves -- Eyptians did not historically keep slaves. They made captured enemies into citizens, gave them jobs and in some cases, offered them extra work to build monuments It makes good theater but if one wants to believe that, I hear that bridge in NYC is up for sale again.

The stories of Moses may primarily be being told to remind people that the Egyptians borrowed their religion (through Cush and Nimrod) from the Babylonians who stole and perverted the God of Noah.

Also I might add that the "plagues" supposedly from God are being studied by science today as "history" because the sequence of events are scientifically accurate.

Even to the first born dying, if they Hebrews were fasting and the Egyptians "first born" were exclusively in ritual eating of the "first fruits" of harvest which were contaminated by the nile then the first born would have perished. So it was God who by an arbitrary opposing custom of fasting spared the first born males of the the Hebrew people their lives.

The plagues were brought on by the Egyptians themselves anyway, God only acted as a deliverer. Such is the case in most of the OT. The underlying spiritual powers were positioned differently in the OT then they are today in the NT.

One must always properly discern the true God's motivations and actual involvement in any OT story...

Yes, the plagues have historic markers, like the eruption of Thera off the coast of Greece, now the charming Santorini and a ring of islets (pillar of fire, receding waters and tidal wave, affecting the Reed Sea, not the Red Sea). All mythology is based on some natural occurance that the superstitious had to find a way to explain. Science was a in infancy, except with the Egyptians and Greeks. Alas, nearly all of their science was wiped out by the fire in the Library of Alexandria.

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That's a silly, inaccurate amatuer photoshop portrait of the real King Tut which has little to go on other than the mask on the coffin. To my knowledge, the mummy has never been digitally scanned and recreated.
I believe they were thinking of Barbra Streisand as King Tut.

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