Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 03:50 am
Intrepid wrote:
I hope nobody minds if I attempt to shed some light on this item. The Mosaic law in the New Testament believer's life can be different than what some might expect. Not everyone looks at it the same way.

There is an emphases, in the New Testament, especially through the words of Paul, that Christians are no longer under the rule of the Mosaic law. We can read this in Romans, Galations, Corinthians etc.


Actually...any reasonable reading of what Paul had to say...comes to the conclusion that he wanted the Mosaic Laws with regard to circumcision and dietary restrictions lifted. AT NO POINT DOES IT APPEAR PAUL THOUGHT ALL THE INJUCTIONS OF THE GOD NO LONGER APPLY.

That is merely the fantasy modern Christians want to put on things so they don't have to deal with the murderous barbarian as a murderous barbarian.

It is only the rule of circumcision and dietary restrictions that Paul actually addresses.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 10:30 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
It is only the rule of circumcision and dietary restrictions that Paul actually addresses.


Those being the real show stoppers to recruitment efforts for his new church.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 12:13 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Of course, I cannot answer why some in the U.S. fight for the 10 commandments to be in public buildings. I suspect it has more to do with power than with Christianity.


This is assuredly so--i can't prove it, but i'm nevertheless certain that you are correct in that assumption.

As for the rest of your post, you have asserted that Paul's word shows that Christians are no longer under Mosaic Law. You then provide a series of quotes, none of which substantiate your contention. If you have quotes from Romans, Galatians or Corinthians which you claim clearly demonstrate that Christians are no long under Mosaic Law, perhaps you might provide them. If you assert it is proven from the quotes you have provided (which were from Matthew, Mark and Luke), then you have both failed to provide the proof you allege, and you have inferentially suggested that Mosaic Law does not enjoin one to love one's neighbor, and in fact, that the opposite were the case, else a denial of Mosaic Law would not necessarily lead to loving one's neighbor. Or, of course, the quotes you provided can be considered simply to have been non sequiturs.

Your logic here fails altogether.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 12:18 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Of course, I cannot answer why some in the U.S. fight for the 10 commandments to be in public buildings. I suspect it has more to do with power than with Christianity.


Maybe they're not "True Christians" as defined by anyone else who thinks only they have an understanding of Christianity. True Christians would certainly know that the 10 Commandments are passe, wouldn't they?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 12:21 pm
J_B,

The Ten Commandments are not passe. Nine of the Ten Commandments are repated in the New Testament. To me, that means they are still in effect. The only one not repeated in the New Testament is the Sabbath.

So, it's passe to not kill? I think common sense tells all of us that is not true.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 12:28 pm
So, now there are nine?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 12:49 pm
That's a good one, J_B!http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/lmfao.gif No, there are and always will be the original Ten Commandments. Actually, it's not the "day" itself that we are to keep set aside for the Lord. I believe that we are to worship the Lord everyday. I am sure you have heard the phrase that "Jesus is the Sabbath?"

http://www.ldolphin.org/sabbathrest.html

I would like to say something about that link. Though they explain this very well, in my opinion, I believe they could have left this statement completely out. I do not believe it was necessary.

[quote]This is why the claims of the Seventh Day Adventists, the Seventh Day Baptists, and other groups, that Christians changed the sabbath, are absurd, ridiculous.[/quote]
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 12:57 pm
Not necessary, but true, right?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 01:12 pm
Setanta wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
Of course, I cannot answer why some in the U.S. fight for the 10 commandments to be in public buildings. I suspect it has more to do with power than with Christianity.


This is assuredly so--i can't prove it, but i'm nevertheless certain that you are correct in that assumption.

As for the rest of your post, you have asserted that Paul's word shows that Christians are no longer under Mosaic Law. You then provide a series of quotes, none of which substantiate your contention. If you have quotes from Romans, Galatians or Corinthians which you claim clearly demonstrate that Christians are no long under Mosaic Law, perhaps you might provide them. If you assert it is proven from the quotes you have provided (which were from Matthew, Mark and Luke), then you have both failed to provide the proof you allege, and you have inferentially suggested that Mosaic Law does not enjoin one to love one's neighbor, and in fact, that the opposite were the case, else a denial of Mosaic Law would not necessarily lead to loving one's neighbor. Or, of course, the quotes you provided can be considered simply to have been non sequiturs.

Your logic here fails altogether.


My only purpose for posting for this at all was because Arella Mae did not provide information as requested. I was just trying to provide some food for thought on the matter.

I will provide a few of the verses that I was referring to which allude to the subject.

Galatians 3:10-13  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.

Galations 3:24-25  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15  What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Titus 2:11-12. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people. It trains us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age

The claim that we are not under mosaic law was not originally mine, but I could see some validity in it and that is the only reason I posted a response.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 01:17 pm
J_B wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
Of course, I cannot answer why some in the U.S. fight for the 10 commandments to be in public buildings. I suspect it has more to do with power than with Christianity.


Maybe they're not "True Christians" as defined by anyone else who thinks only they have an understanding of Christianity. True Christians would certainly know that the 10 Commandments are passe, wouldn't they?


True Christian is certainly, as you imply, open to interpretation. The 10 Commandments are not passe. However, they are but only a few that we should live by. The new laws provided by Christ (which were not meant to replace, but enhance the 10 commandments) cover about every evil situation if applied. To love one's neighbour as themself would mean that nothing bad would be done.

I know that some would jump right in with something about people who do not like themselves so this would not work etc. etc. I will not bother considering that foolishness.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 01:19 pm
Fair enough, although i can be pointed out that this is Paul speaking, and not Hey-Zeus. I would also point out to you that your quoted verses are not entirely straight-foward, they are ambiguous. They don't serve to unequivocably establish that Paul rejects Mosaic Law, and, of course, do not serve at all to establish that your boy Hey-Zeus had exempted anyone from the Law.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 01:21 pm
Fair enough.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 01:26 pm
Intrepid,

You explained it much better than I ever could! Thanx so much for doing that!
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 05:23 pm
The Mosaic Law was put into effect to lead the way to Christ. (Galatians 3:19-25) It was impossible for imperfect humans to keep. Christ, by keeping the law, demonstrated his perfection and proved himself worthy of everlasting life. It was this perfect life that he offered up in behalf of mankind.

BTW, this would have been meaningless if Jesus, were God.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 06:08 pm
neologist wrote:
The Mosaic Law was put into effect to lead the way to Christ. (Galatians 3:19-25) It was impossible for imperfect humans to keep. Christ, by keeping the law, demonstrated his perfection and proved himself worthy of everlasting life.


Actually, Neo...he didn't "keep the law."

He changed it...after swearing that he was not here to change it.

In the story of the adultress (or prostitute) who was about to be stoned...

...Jesus told the assembled would-be stoners that the one among them who was without should cast the first stone.

Supposedly...he was without sin.

If he had "kept the law"...he would have cast the first stone...and begun the stoning the god he worshipped ordained for this offense.

He did not keep the law.

HE DID NOT KEEP THE LAW.

Quote:

It was this perfect life that he offered up in behalf of mankind.


See above.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 07:06 pm
I think you're just not going to be happy Frank until someone is out there somewhere stoning someone. Shocked

What part of this don't you get? He is God Frank. If He didn't stone her then He was right. Period! You don't accept that, that's fine but it doesn't change the fact He was right.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 07:08 pm
Arella Mae wrote:
I think you're just not going to be happy Frank until someone is out there somewhere stoning someone. Shocked

What part of this don't you get? He is God Frank. If He didn't stone her then He was right. Period! You don't accept that, that's fine but it doesn't change the fact He was right.


There you go with facts again!
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 07:20 pm
First of all, I said, I think........for the first statement.


Isasah 45:18. For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD, and there is no other. 19. ... I, the LORD, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 21. ... there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 07:23 pm
AM you're a fruitcake with very little knowledge of the bible, you would do well to keep that in mind.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2006 07:26 pm
An actual fact, for those keeping track, is that there exists no external-to-scripture evidence "He" said or did anything, no evidence "He", as portrayed in scripture, ever existed.

Another actual fact is that there is more science in astrology than is to be found in the Bible.
0 Replies
 
 

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