Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 09:03 pm
Arella Mae wrote:
Holy Moly! How did that happen? Shocked


Looks like you exercised your faith on the submit button a bit too strongly and it left you vulnerable to repetition. :wink:

Perhaps that is the jist of the answer. If it is repeated often enough it becomes faith. Mayhaps it is a good thing that you stop to question how tht happened. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 09:11 pm
http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/lmfao.gif That's a good one! My computer has been acting funny today and I wasn't sure it was accepting it when I submitted it because nothing happened. I did ask the moderators to take those extras out!http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/lmfao.gif
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 09:21 pm
If the moderators edit/delete your repeated posts, doesn't that invalidate belief that what is presented as your word is a true representation of what was recorded? :wink:
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 09:57 pm
I didn't ask them to delete all of them. Just the duplicates. So, no, my words will stand anyway. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:18 pm
Is that a true representation of what was recorded?

If others only see the edited/moderated version of the posts and not the numerous repetitions, is it a misrepresentation of what actually occurred?

Do we campaign for the faithful belief that the moderated version of the thread is your word inspite of the flaws we know were originally there before it was moderated to reflect the perfect product?

Amazing how my strong faith in computers presented such a fitting and timely analogy for our discussion. I couldn't of asked for a more perfect act of the silicon gods. Cool
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:23 pm
You tell me, Butrflynet? Besides, what difference does this instance make? Are you going to try to relate that to translating the Bible, etc.?

Been there, done that. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:56 pm
Makes a lot of difference for me, and why I chose not to govern my life by what some salesperson represented in their edition of the world according to a character they called god. For me, there is a lot of relative circumstance between belief in the perfection of various translations and revisions of the bible and what occurred with the posting errors on this thread.

I was just wanting to explore where the limits of those differences and beliefs were for you since you responded and kept asking me to clarify and pin you down with my questions.

Sounds like you don't want to play anymore so I won't pester you with more of my questions.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 12:07 am
Oh no! I didn't mean that at all Butrflynet! I was trying to make a joke. My timing or something is always off. I apologize for that.

Please, go ahead and ask. I'll do my best to answer. Please understand though, this critical thinking is something I'm not really used to. I'm trying to learn it and understand it. So, if you start to get frustrated with me because I don't understand something, let me know.

I have been enjoying our conversation and thank you for it.
0 Replies
 
megamanXplosion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 01:18 am
timberlandko wrote:
One who actually has studied not just a particular Bible or two, but who objectively, dispassionately, rigorously has studied the Bible, its various traditions and translations, its history and development from its origins through its assorted canonizations all the way to its present-day representations, its antecedents, its cross-cultural contemporaries, and the cultures, traditions, and literatures of what has come to be Western Civilization, can come to no other conclusion but that The Bible is folklore.


I agree. The vast majority of Christians who claim to have studied the Bible have not truly done so. They have memorized a few verses, selected their preference on which side of a few contradictions they believe, figured out how the stories fit together, etc. but rarely do actually study the origins of the Bible. You are right, it is practically impossible for someone to comprehensively study the Bible and remain a believer. I speak from personal experience.

Most people are not aware that the Ten Commandments are truly just a repeat of the Code of Hammurabi and the Hindu Vedas (the references to giving rights to women was removed, of course); that Moses is a legend similar to many other legends like Manou the Indian legislator, Nemo the Lawgiver, Mises, Manes the lawgiver, Minos the Cretan reformer, etc.; the reed boat story of Moses was modeled after the legend of Krishna; Jesus Christ is a fake name that essentially mirrored Jezeus Krishna and that was derived from the Egyptian legend of Horus KRST; Abraham is truly an abominated form of Brahma; the story of Noah's ark was from earlier legends (I've quoted a Sumerian legend from 2600 B.C. earlier in this topic); the concept of Mother Mary was borrowed from the Egyptian legend of Isis, known as Mata-Meri; the name of their God "Yahweh" was taken from the Egyptian "IAO"; Esther of the Old Testament is an abomination of the Goddess Ishtar; St. Josephat is taken from the buddhistic title Bodhisat and is a remake of Buddha; the Egyptian Horus' principle enemy was "Sata" when then became Satan; Hell is essentially the Greek Hades mixed with the theme of the valley of Hinnom; many phrases are purposely mistranslated like how "Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the damnation of hell?" should truly end with the words "the valley of Hinnom"; the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was truly the result of an Assyrian conquest and was not a judgement of "God"; and one can keep mentioning blatant absurdities, retellings of folklore, political tactics and scare tactics, and other cases of so-called "pious fraud."

Arella Mae wrote:
Please understand though, this critical thinking is something I'm not really used to.


You need not remind us.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 01:37 am
megamanXplosion Wrote:

Quote:
....You are right, it is practically impossible for someone to comprehensively study the Bible and remain a believer. I speak from personal experience.


You say you speak from personal experience but yet say it is practically impossible for someone, which I assume you to mean anyone other than you, to comprehensively study the Bible and remain a believer?http://www.smileys.ws/smls/yahoo/00000006.gif I know of someone who has studied the Bible so extensively and comprehensively that he can start from the beginning of the New Testament's first book and quote it from memory to the end. Now, in order to do that and to be able to explain each and everything he just quoted and tell you where it came from, I'd say that's extensive and comprehensive, wouldn't you? And you know what? He's got more faith and belief in God than I could ever imagine having. Now, logic tells me if there is one person in this world that can do that, then there are probably others.

As you said yourself, it's a personal experience. Timber seems to have had the same experience. I haven't. There are many on this board that haven't. Now, if you think me or anyone else hasn't studied it extensively or comprehensively enough because we still believe, well, that's just you.


Quote:
You need not remind us.


Wasn't necessary, was it? We just have differing beliefs, views and ways of communicating. Doesn't make either one of us any better or worse than the other as far as I'm concerned.
0 Replies
 
megamanXplosion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 03:09 am
Quote:
I know of someone who has studied the Bible so extensively and comprehensively that he can start from the beginning of the New Testament's first book and quote it from memory to the end. Now, in order to do that and to be able to explain each and everything he just quoted and tell you where it came from, I'd say that's extensive and comprehensive, wouldn't you?


Memorizing is not comprehensive study. Ask that person you know: (1) what is the symbolic purpose of the number 12, (2) what does the name "Israel" symbolize, (3) and how does referring to Israel as God's land contradict the Bible? I will be more than happy to tear every uncritical and apologetic answer to shreds.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 03:14 am
...yup - that'd be a seriously constuctive pursuit - that "tearing to shreds" deal...
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 03:21 am
megamanXplosion Wrote:

Quote:
Memorizing is not comprehensive study. Ask that person you know: (1) what is the symbolic purpose of the number 12, (2) what does the name "Israel" symbolize, (3) and how does referring to Israel as God's land contradict the Bible? I will be more than happy to tear every uncritical and apologetic answer to shreds.


Why don't you ask him yourself? His name is Jack VanImpe. He'll tell you where every word originated in the Bible if you'd like. He'll tell you anything you'd like an answer to about the Bible. Because you see, he has extensively and comprehensively studied the Bible, its origins, translations, etc.
0 Replies
 
megamanXplosion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 04:51 am
snood wrote:
...yup - that'd be a seriously constuctive pursuit - that "tearing to shreds" deal...


"Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should....."

Quote:
Why don't you ask him yourself? His name is Jack VanImpe. He'll tell you where every word originated in the Bible if you'd like. He'll tell you anything you'd like an answer to about the Bible. Because you see, he has extensively and comprehensively studied the Bible, its origins, translations, etc.


It figures that you would bring up the "Walking Bible." A man with a gimmick. I remember several of his claims. He has claimed that the alignment of the planets in 1982 would cause an increase in the amount of earthquakes and that the world will run out of food in 1984. Oh, and the rapture was coming. He also made the claim that in the beginning of 1993 the European Community (the "revived Roman Empire" a.k.a. Illuminati) would rise to power and create a global government. Oh, and the rapture was coming. Then the world was supposed to end before 1996 because Israel's generation "shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" and a generation was 47.523 years and that many years back there was the Declaration of Independence of Israel. Oh, and the rapture was coming. Anybody with half a brain will know the "Walking Bible" is either preying on the fears of old ladies to subsequently exploit them or he is genuinely insane.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 04:56 am
Yes, and I pretty much figured you would have some kind of retort to discredit him, or whatever. You made a statement that you didn't think anyone that studied the Bible extensively or comprehensively could keep that belief. Well, you were wrong.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 05:27 am
timberlandko wrote:
One who actually has studied not just a particular Bible or two, but who objectively, dispassionately, rigorously has studied the Bible, its various traditions and translations, its history and development from its origins through its assorted canonizations all the way to its present-day representations, its antecedents, its cross-cultural contemporaries, and the cultures, traditions, and literatures of what has come to be Western Civilization, can come to no other conclusion but that The Bible is folklore.
'Zat yer argument, timber?

Smart guys don't believe the Bible?

Tsk! No scone for you.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 05:45 am
snood wrote:
...yup - that'd be a seriously constuctive pursuit - that "tearing to shreds" deal...

I'll pretend this wasn't sarcasm, and say 'I agree wholeheartedly', which I do.
Tearing misinformation to shreds through critical analysis is the way to truth. What could be more constructive?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 05:59 am
Doktor S wrote:
snood wrote:
...yup - that'd be a seriously constuctive pursuit - that "tearing to shreds" deal...

I'll pretend this wasn't sarcasm, and say 'I agree wholeheartedly', which I do.
Tearing misinformation to shreds through critical analysis is the way to truth. What could be more constructive?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 06:16 am
Her comment about not knowing how to think critically should shut down this conversation.

It's the final answer.

VanImpe knows what's in the Bible--he hasn't examined it. He's not all that keen on critical thinking, either.

Rote isn't thinking.
0 Replies
 
megamanXplosion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 06:23 am
Arella Mae wrote:
Yes, and I pretty much figured you would have some kind of retort to discredit him, or whatever. You made a statement that you didn't think anyone that studied the Bible extensively or comprehensively could keep that belief. Well, you were wrong.


I don't think you understand the difference between studying and memorizing. The act of studying, in relation to supposedly historical documents, implies objective research and critical thinking concerning the texts, their origins, and their reliability. The act of memorizing does not imply objectivity or skepticism. I am not convinced Jack Van Impe has truly studied the Bible in a comprehensive, objective, and critical manner. The concept of a "rapture" is not supported by the Bible and is the result of quotes taken out of context--memorization without study.

neologist wrote:
Smart guys don't believe the Bible?


The vast majority of studies suggest smart guys are much less likely to believe the Bible. (Religiousness and Intelligence)

Doktor S wrote:
Tearing misinformation to shreds through critical analysis is the way to truth.


I agree.

Lash wrote:
VanImpe knows what's in the Bible--he hasn't examined it. He's not all that keen on critical thinking, either.


I agree.

Lash wrote:
Rote isn't thinking.


I agree. Rote learning is not thinking.
0 Replies
 
 

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