Abortion.What do you think about it?

No that wasn't me, I said abortion before 10 weeks for the correct reason should be ok (But i could be wrong)

Sorry about the slang, im from ireland, "playing the field" means going out with as many people as you want, the slag terminolgy is just made up by men who can't get a woman at all, or by women who are jealous, anyone can be a slag for any reason, I don't know what its like where you live but its a term I rarely hear now outside arguments. I thing a slag would be better defined as someone who betrays the trust of a relationship on a regular and open basis without their partner being aware.

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BDV wrote:

Yes, and the reason I am against abortion is the simply fact that its murder.

So if its murder its murder, whats 10 weeks got to do with it!

I can go for years without any nooky and a few yeras back a so called friend called me a slapper(same as a a slag in my opinion)
He is also a guy that tried it on with me and didnt get what he wanted so yuor definition is correct.Its a name used by guys who dont get what they want.
Ironically he will f*ck anything so in my opinion he is the slapper.

(Im off home now so dont feel im ignoring you if I dont answer)

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Maybe going without nooky for years is responsible for me being so argumentative, but I hate to think like that,I just have an opinion.

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joefromchicago wrote:

I'm glad to see that, after a prolonged absence, real life has returned to this thread. Perhaps he will now take the opportunity to answer the questions that I posed to him over a week ago:

I wrote:
But that's ok, I understand that you don't want to respond to these hypotheticals because you are uncomfortable with the answers that you might have to give. Let me, then, ask you a non-hypothetical: what is your position on the birth control pill?

and:

I wrote:
As I've said before, I don't care about those issues. It's not that I'm avoiding them, it's that I find them inconsequential. But, to make you happy, you may assume (for the purposes of argument) that I take the following positions:
1. all abortions are performed for purely frivolous reasons;
2. life begins at the moment of conception.

I understand why you think that (2) is important to your position, but why is (1) of any importance? Why does it matter that women choose to have abortions for reasons of convenience? If women universally chose abortion for reasons other than convenience, would you then support abortion?

and:

I wrote:
real life wrote:
Doctors who violate abortion laws should do time and lose their medical license.

Lose their medical license? Why stop there? If a fetus/embryo/blastocyst is a living human being, then abortion is murder and an abortionist is a murderer. In most states, that means that an abortionist could face life imprisonment or the death penalty. Why, then, aren't you advocating capital punishment for abortionists?

hi joe,

Sorry if my 'absence' offends you. I didn't realize attendance was taken here. I do have a life outside of the forum, so I'm not always available to do the thinking for you. Sometimes you're gonna have to go it alone.

Regarding birth control, I think I answered that if you'll look back a few pages.

Regarding abortion for reasons other than convenience, I think I've already addressed the issues of rape, incest and the life of the mother.

Why no capital punishment for abortionists? you ask.

Abortion laws pre-Roe provided various penalties, and I think I've addressed that also a few pages back. Maybe use the 'Search' function if you need to.

So since I had pretty much answered all of your questions, you must have been one frustrated puppy while I was gone -- all for no reason. Just read the posts a little more carefully , ok?

Now if you truly don't understand my answers after taking the time to really read them, I'll try to word it a little simpler next time.

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material girl wrote:

real life wrote:
material girl wrote:
Do anti abortion people feel the same about the electric chair/hanging?

Hi material girl,

I think we all could agree that executing someone convicted of a heinous crime by due legal process and deliberation by a jury of their peers ----

--isn't very much analogous to extermination of an innocent party, charged and convicted of nothing , with no due process.

Im confused by big words.

Are you saying its ok to kill a guilty criminal but not a innocent baby?(I agree by the way)

Yes.

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real life wrote:

material girl wrote:
real life wrote:
material girl wrote:
Do anti abortion people feel the same about the electric chair/hanging?

Hi material girl,

I think we all could agree that executing someone convicted of a heinous crime by due legal process and deliberation by a jury of their peers ----

--isn't very much analogous to extermination of an innocent party, charged and convicted of nothing , with no due process.

Im confused by big words.

Are you saying its ok to kill a guilty criminal but not a innocent baby?(I agree by the way)

Yes.

Yeah, what you said.

See. That wasn't so hard, was it?

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real life wrote:

hi joe,

Sorry if my 'absence' offends you. I didn't realize attendance was taken here. I do have a life outside of the forum, so I'm not always available to do the thinking for you. Sometimes you're gonna have to go it alone.

I assure you I took no offense.

real life wrote:

Regarding birth control, I think I answered that if you'll look back a few pages.

Yes, you did. I should have seen that when I first posted my questions.

real life wrote:

Regarding abortion for reasons other than convenience, I think I've already addressed the issues of rape, incest and the life of the mother.

That doesn't answer my question.

real life wrote:

Why no capital punishment for abortionists? you ask.

Abortion laws pre-Roe provided various penalties, and I think I've addressed that also a few pages back. Maybe use the 'Search' function if you need to.

My question did not deal with what laws are in place, but what laws should be in place. If you believe that abortion is murder, then why don't you support capital punishment for abortionists?

real life wrote:

So since I had pretty much answered all of your questions, you must have been one frustrated puppy while I was gone -- all for no reason. Just read the posts a little more carefully , ok?

Frustrated? Me? Hardly.

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material girl wrote:

BDV wrote:
So if its murder its murder, whats 10 weeks got to do with it!

Very little, i know that anywhere in the world that has an abortion policy will not change, so a restiction to the time, when a child is not formed and probably feels no pain is probably the best answer, personally i believe there should be no time past the first few days, but then again that depends, personally i am not sure, but at what age does a babies brain become fuctional ? maybe that should be the switch off point!!

In regards to nooky, yes we all need it, its unfortuate that our lives in adulthood force us to procreate, but i suppose if we didn't there would be no families and it is fun

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Heimarmene is a word which signifies the ancient Greek idea of Fate.

The classical tragedy consisted of a body (the hero genrally) who is struck by the Heimarmene, as if by lightning, in a position that it does not choose and cannot alter and is seen by the spectator in the light which plays upon it from outside. What the hero's character in Greek drama really represents is nothing but the reflection of events upon him and not the reflection of his personality upon the events. This produces in the audience a sense of submissiveness and a stoical acceptance of what Fate throws at them.

This is a feeling completely alien to our Faustian western drama. Our idea of tragedy is to stimulate us and to prod us into dynamic action; to do something about it. We drive to overcome Fate. It is in everything our higher beings do. It is the Right Stuff. We fight gravity and we fight cancer.

This whole thread is taken up with the ancient Greek notion related to the sexual impulse. Many threaders seem stuck fast in the face of this force as if there is nothing they can do about it and they solve their difficulties by imposing on the female what almost sounds like a duty to act against her nature and deny her reproductive function and thus denude her of her femininity. With a bound Jack was free is a denoument which the Greeks would have hissed at. Once their hero is caught up in the toils of tragic Fate he's a dead man but our desire for a "happy ending" has led us to trick Jack's freedom into being despite the contradictions and the pretense that it is actually a "happy ending" which it definitely isn't with a potentially great man or woman being squashed and sucked out of the body we are supposed to love by a hatchet man posing as a doctor and operating on her when there's not only nothing wrong with her but she's in the bloom of health. This is what you get when sexual conquest and "scoring" is the benchmark of masculinity when in actual fact it is the benchmark of animal self-indulgence with economically dependent and cowed women on the end of it who once they can do what they want with their own bodies can be persuaded and cajoled into doing what the male wants. And we end up provoking feminism into being and if we say anything about that we are casually labelled misogynists.

And "All for a moment's glory" (Dirge-Bob Dylan) for the man.

The debate over abortion, and over contraception, thus has two aspects; the ancient Greek aspect and the Faustian aspect. In the latter the male takes action to render these debates pointless. Hence the Roman Catholic position which is unchangeable without betraying its Faustian character and that isn't going to happen.

Male pro-abortionists are ancient Greeks and haven't the slightest respect for women. They seek the "glory" without the responsibility.

"I've got a crying, walking, sleeping, talking living doll."

Cliff Richard-who has never been married, is rich and good looking, is not a homosexual, has never fathered a child and you can bet your last roll-up that had any woman had an abortion at his request she would have come forward and sold her story to the tabloids.

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joefromchicago wrote:

real life wrote:
Regarding abortion for reasons other than convenience, I think I've already addressed the issues of rape, incest and the life of the mother.

That doesn't answer my question.

OK , so which part of my answer regarding rape, incest and life of the mother did you not think addressed the question? Or were there other situtations you had in mind? If so be specific please.

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real life wrote:

OK , so which part of my answer regarding rape, incest and life of the mother did you not think addressed the question? Or were there other situtations you had in mind? If so be specific please.

Your previous answers do not address my questions because my questions had nothing to do with your previous answers. To refresh your recollection, here are my questions again:

Why does it matter that women choose to have abortions for reasons of convenience? If women universally chose abortion for reasons other than convenience, would you then support abortion?
In other words, do you oppose abortion only when it is done for reasons of convenience, or do you oppose it even in those instances when it is not done for convenience? If the former, then how do you reconcile that position with your belief that life begins at conception? If the latter, why do you place any importance on the fact that some women choose to have abortions for reasons of convenience?

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joefromchicago wrote:

real life wrote:
OK , so which part of my answer regarding rape, incest and life of the mother did you not think addressed the question? Or were there other situtations you had in mind? If so be specific please.

Your previous answers do not address my questions because my questions had nothing to do with your previous answers. To refresh your recollection, here are my questions again:
Why does it matter that women choose to have abortions for reasons of convenience? If women universally chose abortion for reasons other than convenience, would you then support abortion?

In other words, do you oppose abortion only when it is done for reasons of convenience, or do you oppose it even in those instances when it is not done for convenience? If the former, then how do you reconcile that position with your belief that life begins at conception? If the latter, why do you place any importance on the fact that some women choose to have abortions for reasons of convenience?

And my answer was , I do make an exception (even though the unborn is a living human being) for abortion in the case of the life of the mother. Then we got into a protracted discussion on self defense and all sorts of 'lifeboat' scenarios. Do you not remember this?

I know I was away for a few days, but........

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real life wrote:

And my answer was , I do make an exception (even though the unborn is a living human being) for abortion in the case of the life of the mother. Then we got into a protracted discussion on self defense and all sorts of 'lifeboat' scenarios. Do you not remember this?

Obviously, you do not intend to answer my question, but I'm willing to drop it for now. It was prompted, after all, by your insistence that I address your contention that many abortions are done for the sake of convenience. Frankly, I cannot understand why you considered that point to be important to your position, which is (as I understand it) based on the belief that life begins at conception. If that is the case, one would surmise that any abortion, done for whatever reason, would be objectionable. The fact that an abortion was motivated by reasons of convenience, then, should be completely immaterial to your position.

But it seems that you now no longer have any interest in that argument, which is fine with me. As I said, I can't understand why you made it in the first place, so maybe it is just as well that you've lost interest in it. Which still leaves unanswered this question:

If you believe that abortion is murder, then why don't you support capital punishment for abortionists?

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joefromchicago wrote:

real life wrote:
And my answer was , I do make an exception (even though the unborn is a living human being) for abortion in the case of the life of the mother. Then we got into a protracted discussion on self defense and all sorts of 'lifeboat' scenarios. Do you not remember this?

Obviously, you do not intend to answer my question, but I'm willing to drop it for now. It was prompted, after all, by your insistence that I address your contention that many abortions are done for the sake of convenience. Frankly, I cannot understand why you considered that point to be important to your position, which is (as I understand it) based on the belief that life begins at conception. If that is the case, one would surmise that any abortion, done for whatever reason, would be objectionable. The fact that an abortion was motivated by reasons of convenience, then, should be completely immaterial to your position.

But it seems that you now no longer have any interest in that argument, which is fine with me. As I said, I can't understand why you made it in the first place, so maybe it is just as well that you've lost interest in it. Which still leaves unanswered this question:
If you believe that abortion is murder, then why don't you support capital punishment for abortionists?

Obviously, I have answered your question more than once.

You protest that you 'don't understand' , and I agree.

You seem to have little grasp of the issues involved, having stated several times that it makes no difference whether the unborn is a living human being or not.

The Supreme Court which decided Roe stated that the personhood of the unborn was the only issue which would justify banning abortion.

That you do not understand the centrality of this issue does not surprise me.

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real life-

I'm sorry to have to tell you but it is your strategy in the case which lost the argument in the first place.

Look how you have buried the post they have no answer to. They can piss all over you all week long and until the end of time. You are giving them a leg up everytime you post which is why they eagerly respond to you.

Is getting a response more important to you than the abortions? It sure does look that way from here.

One well known way of fitting-up a defendant is to give him a hopeless lawyer.

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real life wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
Which still leaves unanswered this question:
If you believe that abortion is murder, then why don't you support capital punishment for abortionists?

Obviously, I have answered your question more than once.

You protest that you 'don't understand' , and I agree.

You seem to have little grasp of the issues involved, having stated several times that it makes no difference whether the unborn is a living human being or not.

The Supreme Court which decided Roe stated that the personhood of the unborn was the only issue which would justify banning abortion.

That you do not understand the centrality of this issue does not surprise me.

Let me repeat: If you believe that abortion is murder, then why don't you support capital punishment for abortionists?

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joefromchicago wrote:

Let me repeat: If you believe that abortion is murder, then why don't you support capital punishment for abortionists?

Not a reply to one of my statements, but can't resist answering - Abortion is murder, but in civilised countries capital punishment is illegal for everyone, and fortunately where i live so is abortions. I am so surprised that the states still supports such draconian way to punish, maybe thats why you have such high crime rates!!!!

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spendius wrote:

real life-

I'm sorry to have to tell you but it is your strategy in the case which lost the argument in the first place.

Look how you have buried the post they have no answer to. They can piss all over you all week long and until the end of time. You are giving them a leg up everytime you post which is why they eagerly respond to you.

Is getting a response more important to you than the abortions? It sure does look that way from here.

One well known way of fitting-up a defendant is to give him a hopeless lawyer.

Well, spendi, there is no doubt that I am far from the most articulate spokesmen that the unborn could hope for.

But the truth is still the truth whether spoken eloquently or not.

The more people learn about the medical status of the unborn, the more pro-life they become. It is inevitable.

Shine the light of knowledge in, and the darkness of ignorance runs away.

I dare any pro-abortion person to show medically why the unborn should not be considered a separate patient, or why the unborn must be considered medically a 'part of the mother's body.' It cannot be done.

They must hide behind semantics and political sloganeering.

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BDV wrote:

Not a reply to one of my statements, but can't resist answering - Abortion is murder, but in civilised countries capital punishment is illegal for everyone, and fortunately where i live so is abortions. I am so surprised that the states still supports such draconian way to punish, maybe thats why you have such high crime rates!!!!

Fair enough. Would you, then, be in favor of treating abortionists in the same fashion as your laws currently treat murderers?

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real life-

It is not your eloquence or lack of it that is the problem.

Might I respectfully suggest that you familiarise yourself (not just read through) with the chapter Abortion and Infanticide in Germaine Greer's no-holds barred book Sex and Destiny.

Then you might discover if you concentrate on how to put some ooooomph into your punches.

You will know when you have hit a raw nerve when Joe starts on about you being an "annoying buzzing noise". As it is you are serving it up on a plate for him and he's slurping.

Did you know that he took the space partly paid for by a FIGHT GLOBAL WARMING advert to encourage global warming. What do you make of that?

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Abortion.What do you think about it?

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