sozobe wrote:LoveMyFamily wrote:In my opinion, people do not have to live together to judge the true nature or character of the other person. Basic traits cannot be hidden and it comes out in your process of knowing the person. If a person is inherently honest, compassionate, responsible, you will know it whether you marry him or decide to stay together. These character traits cannot be hidden or made up, IMO.
I very much disagree.
Sozobe.. are you really disagreeing? What you mentioned in your post, I mentioned in the second paragraph of my post
I agree when people are dating they behave a lot different but the basic traits cannot be hidden, if you choose to notice. They are easier to figure out if they are extremes of a nature. For example, control freak or obsession with cleanliness/neatness. They come out in some form or other. We dated for more than 3 years and when we started living together after our wedding, nothing came as a surprise to me.
I have to agree with CJ and jespah. It all depends on how it works for each couple. Some may find happiness even if they don't live together and vice versa. In many cultures though parental acceptance means a great deal. Anastasia if you are in the US/Europe, society will be more open to your living together but it may be hard on you if your parents don't agree.
LoveMyFamily, I was disagreeing with the idea that you can always learn the most important things about a person by dating him or her. I think it's a simple truism that people are on their best behavior while dating, and I like to know what I'm getting -- for better or for worse -- before I make that commitment.
I lived with one guy for about a year, broke up, was difficult, learned a ton; lived with my current husband for about four years before we got married, and that worked really well for us (married ten years so far). There are all kinds of negotiations and adjustments we made that were much easier (for me) knowing that if it didn't work out, it didn't work out, rather than having the pressure of "we're married so we gotta make this work!!" Related to that, I think it also allowed for more equitable adjustments.
I already said that cultural issues are not insignificant and the benefits I see to living together may not be worth the potential backlash. I'll add that I don't think that EVERYONE must live together -- in cultures where it doesn't carry that backlash, I heartily recommend it, based on my experience, research I've seen, and many experiences of friends of mine. That doesn't extend to saying that all people must live together, or that people who don't live together first will have failed marriages. A variety of approaches work, depending on the context and the people involved.
One more thought re: my first paragraph, it's not just about bad behavior per se, but compatibility. Someone can be "good" but still be impossible to live with. ("Would you quit being so goddamn perky all the time?!" or whatever. ;-))
There is a LOT you can learn about a person by living together (married or not). Lived with my first husband for about year & half before marrying him (in conservative, disapproving India). Very soon after moving in with him I learned things about him that I wouldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams. (Of course, I chose to ignore them and still married him and it's obvious how well that turned out.) I wouldn't have had a whiff of those things if we hadn't moved in together. He was the original Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Well, maybe the contrast wasn't that stark. And sure he was compassionate, sane, intelligent to the point of brilliance actually - still....
B - my husband now - & I lived together for a few months too before we married. This time in the far more tolerant US, only his family (in India) is extremely conservative. (Makes mine seem like hippies, actually.) Because of that, and funnily enough, the cultural mores affected me more this time around. Of course, he's wonderful - can't say enough good things about him. But honestly, my responses about him now will be far more tempered and mature, after having lived with him for a total of 2 1/2 years, than they would've been when we were just dating. As I'm sure his will be. We were, as is everyone, our absolute best selves while we were dating. Not so very much when you're together 24/7/365.
Yeah, to live together or not is such a personal thing.
One thing I do know is I wouldn't base my decision on what others think.
Where does the whole parental approval/disapproval relationship extend to though? I mean, I know that the relationships between parents and kids can be radically different between next door neighbours let alone countries and continents but how far does/should it go? Are there certain rules which should simply never been broken based upon principle rather than reason or how often does it end up extending into everyday life?
I understand concern for the well-being of children when hindsight becomes such a powerful tool but I have to wonder about certain things when I hear about them, like whether rifts are caused in families because people truly believe someone is making a big mistake or whether it's simply because a tradition is being broken. The reason the latter worries me so is because, though conflicts are inevitable, when they threaten family unity etc I wonder about the reasoning behind it all. I know I've been told about mistakes I was allowed to make, beliefs, opinions, rules for their own sake don't help many people at all. Just thought that was an interesting line of discussion anyway.
Ashers wrote:Where does the whole parental approval/disapproval relationship extend to though? I mean, I know that the relationships between parents and kids can be radically different between next door neighbours let alone countries and continents but how far does/should it go? Are there certain rules which should simply never been broken based upon principle rather than reason or how often does it end up extending into everyday life?
I understand concern for the well-being of children when hindsight becomes such a powerful tool but I have to wonder about certain things when I hear about them, like whether rifts are caused in families because people truly believe someone is making a big mistake or whether it's simply because a tradition is being broken. The reason the latter worries me so is because, though conflicts are inevitable, when they threaten family unity etc I wonder about the reasoning behind it all. I know I've been told about mistakes I was allowed to make, beliefs, opinions, rules for their own sake don't help many people at all. Just thought that was an interesting line of discussion anyway.
See my post above.
If you decide you want to live with someone, you do not need mommy and daddys permission.
If the parents are giving the unconditional love they are supposed to, they won't stop loving you, even if they disagree with your decision.
If you don't get that kind of love from the people who brought you into this world, then it really doesn't matter if they agree or not.
Yeah I agree. I'm not sure how support for a decision and unconditional love mix together, whether one should mean the other or whether one can exist without the other, namely the love without the support. I don't even know how far the whole 'support for everything they do' should extend, interesting though. By the way, I know I used the words kids/children etc but I am talking about adults, just used those words from the parent perspective, you know, the whole mommy still worries about her 34 year old daughter thing.
mommy needs to realize her 34 year old daughter can run her own life.
I agree with that, as a concept; I do think that there are cultures where it goes beyond mommy being mad, though. Like, being socially ostracized, never being able to marry if the living-together relationship doesn't work out, etc.
So while it's one thing in modern America, I shy away from saying that everyone in the world should just do what they want and damn the consequences, as the consequences can be rather severe.
of course.
I was referring to ashers posts about parental issues.
there are of course other issues to be dealt with.
It still remains a personal decision.
I couldn't quite tell what Ashers was getting at, wasn't sure if there was stuff about culture in there.
At any rate, agreed.
I was thinking about Eva's post that's all, just thought the point about her sister was very unfortunate.
sozobe wrote:LoveMyFamily, I was disagreeing with the idea that you can always learn the most important things about a person by dating him or her.
Thanks for explaining the disagreement sozobe.
Cultural aspects are very important. In some countries or areas of countries, there is some room for renegades, and renegade love can help to bind, for a bit, though a relationship needs more than just that, as we all know.
Thanks you all
In fact ,I am a freshman in a Chinese university.And my major is English.Recently , we have had the discussion about cohabitation in our class.So I post this topic to learn about what people from other countries think about it.
Thanks very much!
