Reply
Mon 8 May, 2006 02:54 pm
We have some members here who retail a new version of the Protocols of Zion. These are leftwingnuts who rant about the current administration being controlled by Jews. Personally, i think our foreign policy is and has been for fifty years hobbled by our support for Israel. However, these jokers take it many steps further down the road to anti-semitism. They contend that Jews control the government, and that all foreign policy decisions are filtered through a Zionist plot of some sort. (Excuse me for not having all the details of their conspiracy paranoia--it's not something i am interested in reading up on.)
What the ? ! ? ! ?
What ya think goys and birls--are they looney, or not?
I've noted that anti Jew talk is getting strident of late. Which is a different thing from disagreeing with some of Israel's political acts. I don't like the sound of it.
I concur.
Besides, everyone knows the government's controlled by Unitarians.
It may be that the Isreali Govt has a habit (good or bad, I do not know) of saying what it means and meaning what it says.
For example... see this...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961301962&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
"Vice Premier Shimon Peres said Monday in an interview to Reuters that "the president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map," Army Radio reported.
[For a Jerusalem Online video of events click here]
According to Peres, "Teheran is making a mockery of the international community's efforts to solve the crisis surrounding Iran's nuclear program."
I have spotted
two lies.
1) The current administration is not controled by
Jews [but by Zionist's]
2) Not
all foreign policy decisions [only decisions that favour Israel]
That's one sucker . . . i knew they couldn't stay away . . .
I must be missing some posts here. Do these folks think that U.S. foreign policy, instead of being determined by Cheney and Rumsfeld, is really set by Wolfowitz et al?
I actually thought the Christian Right was in charge. You know, Israel must survive so it can be annihilated by Jesus during the Rapture...
Well, of course, during the Rapture, Jews who convert to Christianity will be lofted up to Heaven with all the Jeebus lovers, and those who don't will be blasted straight to Hell . . . but, no serious business, one of these jokers started a thread in which he asserted that Jews are taking over the administration, in order to forward their Zionist agenda.
If you have been missing these posts, you are indeed a fortunate man.
America, too, has spies in its allies' countries....
I don't get what, other than this simple face, your assortment of headlines proves.
"In the United States, we do not have full-throated, full-throttle debate about Israel," she wrote. "In Israel, they have it as a matter of course, but the truth is that the accusation of anti-Semitism is far too often raised in this country against anyone who criticizes the government of Israel. ... I don't know that I've ever felt intimidated by the knee-jerk 'you're anti-Semitic' charge leveled at anyone who criticizes Israel, but I do know I have certainly heard it often enough to become tired of it. And I wonder if that doesn't produce the same result: giving up on the discussion."
-Molly Ivins
I'm critical of Israel, and of American policies which subordinate real-politik to the relationship with Israel. If someone were to accuse me of anti-semitism on such a basis, i'd either laugh or just ignore them. However, it is a different matter altogether when leftwingnuts claim that the government is in the hands of Jews who are using it to forward a Zionist agenda--and that is anti-semitism, plain and simple.
Is there an "Israel lobby"? Sure. Who doesn't have a lobby in this country? Does this mean that Zionists run our foreign policy? I think not. And, yes, there are those who hint (or do more than hint) that anti-Semitism lies behind any criticism of Israel.
But let's try to have some perspective here, shall we? I'm more worried about the sway the Christian Right has over this country, but hey, that's my bias...
Israeli/Zionist influence in foreign policy and media is a fact, this became most obvious after the neocons came to power. Let,s make something very clear, most Jews are not supporters of the neocons, most Jewish people vote Dems, however we cannot ignore the fact that the neocons themselves, especially the inner circle, were almost exclusively rightwing Jews. Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen, Douglas Feith, David Frum, Kristoll, Elliot Cohen, Mr. and Mrs. Wurmser etc, made up the inner circle and all of them were Jewish, some of them Israeli citizens.
Now, is it plausible that they might be biased and first and foremost consider Israel's interests? Yes. This is not because they are Jews and Jews are traitors by default, the same could be said if Saudis were in charge of foreign policy which turned out to be in the interest of Saudi Arabia, but was questionably in the best interest of the US. The same conclusion could be drawn.
So, this is a sensitive issue and I try to keep an open mind about it.
Hmm... Are these people serious?
If there are jews in the government, you think it's not farfetched to believe they are loyal to or wish to help the case of Israël? Please enlighten me, but don't you live in America, Freedom? Isn't that the country which signed the Declaration of Independence? And the people signing it, they were Americans I take it? No ties to the European homelands at all? I guess not, since they declared themselves independent right?
Mistrusting people because of their supposed origin and resulting loyalties is paranoid and quite racist.
Naj.
snood wrote:"In the United States, we do not have full-throated, full-throttle debate about Israel," she wrote. "In Israel, they have it as a matter of course, but the truth is that the accusation of anti-Semitism is far too often raised in this country against anyone who criticizes the government of Israel. ... I don't know that I've ever felt intimidated by the knee-jerk 'you're anti-Semitic' charge leveled at anyone who criticizes Israel, but I do know I have certainly heard it often enough to become tired of it. And I wonder if that doesn't produce the same result: giving up on the discussion."
-Molly Ivins
That actually strikes me as being, currently, the most pressing danger the conspiracy/anti semite people pose....that it becomes easy for the pro Israel, (no matter what it does and how badly it behaves), people to smear those delivering a rational critique and proposing a different US policy towards Israel and the Middle East as antisemitic, and thus to hinder proper debate.
I am of two minds regarding the politics of Israel, but I can understand some of its cause. But calling people who object to the politics of Israel an antisemite is vicious and wrong.
The leaders of any country and the policies implemented by them are in a proper democracy representative of the people living in it, but this isn't an absolute and slandering a person who disagrees with the politics as one who hates the inhabitants of a country is obviously an error... and a grievous one at that.
edgarblythe wrote:I've noted that anti Jew talk is getting strident of late. Which is a different thing from disagreeing with some of Israel's political acts. I don't like the sound of it.
As opposed to the reasonable anti-Jew talk?
Such doublespeak you spout, Finn. Meant to antagonize, but not enlighten.
dlowan wrote:snood wrote:"In the United States, we do not have full-throated, full-throttle debate about Israel," she wrote. "In Israel, they have it as a matter of course, but the truth is that the accusation of anti-Semitism is far too often raised in this country against anyone who criticizes the government of Israel. ... I don't know that I've ever felt intimidated by the knee-jerk 'you're anti-Semitic' charge leveled at anyone who criticizes Israel, but I do know I have certainly heard it often enough to become tired of it. And I wonder if that doesn't produce the same result: giving up on the discussion."
-Molly Ivins
That actually strikes me as being, currently, the most pressing danger the conspiracy/anti semite people pose....that it becomes easy for the pro Israel, (no matter what it does and how badly it behaves), people to smear those delivering a rational critique and proposing a different US policy towards Israel and the Middle East as antisemitic, and thus to hinder proper debate.
Remonds me of our current immigration "debate" where anyone who might oppose a wide open border is immediately a racist...
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace