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History brain-teaser

 
 
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 04:44 pm
I am in the midst of a history brain teaser, and need some help, please.

This is a sketch of a battle field

http://www.borge.diesal.de/a2k/01.jpg


The text (translated) is like this:
In a virgin-like land did they meet.
After the last defeat, it was Bobby's turn to capture a victory.
That's why he gathered his strength, but because of Bill's
egotistical behavior, he had to climb the mountain himself. Sam and Heinrich were able to conquer the rotary spear (?), but Al didn't get ahead. The weather and the surroundings weren't on his side. After he
made some tactical errors, he had to admit defeat to the wise one.
After 2 days, Bobby was defeated by Joe and retreated.

What's the date of the battle?

----

Now I came up with the battle of Sharpsburg, but I am not entirely
sure, if I am right. Any suggestions?
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 05:12 pm
The Battle of Antietam - September 17, 1862?
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 05:23 pm
Yes, Intrepid, that's what I was thinking. You too?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 06:47 am
The map does not look a thing like the Sharpsburg battle--it may refer to Shiloh, April 6 & 7, 1862. However, there are still problems with it. No Bobby for one. But there was no Al at Sharpsburg. Albert Sidney Johnston commanded the army which attacked Grant at Shiloh. He was killed on the first day, however, and Pierre Gustave Toutant (aka Beauregard) took command. No Joe of any note, there, though. I don't know to whom the Heinrich would refer, but Ullysses Grant was known as Sam Grant by his classmates at West Point. The map does not resemble any battlefield in Virginia, but it could represent the battlefield between Owl Creek and the Tennessee River at Shiloh--additionally, Johnston's army was pushing the Yankees north and east, which would match the map. I know of only three "Joes" who were prominent in that war--Joseph Johnston, "Old Joe" Wheeler (both Southerners) and "Fighting Joe" Hooker. Joe Hooker was at Antietam, but there's no way he could be described as the victor of that battle.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 07:00 am
This is just off the top of my head as I haven't time right now to research it, but it looks like Stone River, Tennessee 1864.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 07:06 am
At Antietam, you have two armies, one very much understrength, and the other very powerful, but badly handled. After crushing Pope's Army of Virginia at the second battle of Manassas, Lee marched north, and then crossed the Potomac. At Frederick, Maryland, he decided to divide his army (dividing one's army in the face of the enemy is a very dangerous thing to do, and it very nearly resulted in Lee's destruction). Lee decided that he would retreat west to Boonesboro, with James "Peter" Longstreet's First Corps, and that Thomas Jackson would take his Second Corps, and, dividing that yet again, capture Harper's Ferry on the Potomac, before rejoining Lee's army. One set of the general orders was lost, and two Yankee soldiers found three cigars wrapped in a thick wad of paper near Frederick a few days later. They realized the papers were important, and turned them over to an offier (i don't know if they got to keep the cigars), who in turn sent them to McClellan. McClellan now had Lee's plans in his hands, and with uncharacteristic vigor, he pushed on to catch up to Lee's army. Daniel Harvey Hill with one thin division held the passes over South Mountain, and he managed against all odds to hold the Yankees off for one day.

Jackson had recrossed the river with most of his corps, but had left Lafayette McLaws north of the river to take Maryland Heights, which would give him a gun position to dominate Harper's Ferry. Jackson then invested Harper's Ferry with the rest of his army. When the Yankees there surrendered, he left Alvin Powell Hill there with his division, and hurried on to Sharpsburg with the rest of his corps. Meanwhile, Lee and the small force still available to him had retreated behind Antietam Creek, to defend Sharpsburg, in which were located his trains (wagon trains, with supplies and the wounded). McClellan came up, and then diddle-f*cked around for two days before he finally attacked. The attack opened with Joe Hooker leading his division against Jackson near the Dunker Church north of the town, on Lee's left. The fighting was severe, and Hooker was wounded and carried out of the battle. John Bell Hood brought his Texans up, and plugged the gap. McClellan then opened his second attack, near the center of Lee's line. This was another savagely fought contest, and Lee's line was only narrowly held when Daniel Hill lead 300 men in a bayonet charge to drive off the Yankees and hold the blood drenched sunken road. The end of the day saw McClellan's third and final attack, on Lee's right. At a stone bridge, Ambrose Burnside sent in an attack which, at one point, was only held off by the Richmond Howitzers, and artillery unit manned by teen aged boys from the orphanages of Richmond. At that point, Alvin Powell Hill came marching in from Harper's Ferry, and in a counterattck, drove back Burnside's troops as they were at the point of victory. That map bears no resemblance to the action.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 07:13 am
Yes, Set, but now I would be grateful if you try it with Cheat Mountain battle..

Everybody cited seem to have been there...
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 07:41 am
It's a very poor map. Heinrich could be Henry, but there aren't a lot of high-ranking Henrys in that war, other than Henry Halleck, who didn't fight any major battle.

In the late winter of 1862, Grant began to advance up the Tennessee and Cumberland Rivers ("up" meaning he was heading south at the time). He took Fort Henry and Fort Donaldson, and advanced south out of Kentucky into Tennessee. He stopped at Pittsburgh Landing on the Tennessee to collect troops and supplies. His command was divided into six divisions. The First Division was commanded by John McClernand, and was on the Yankee right, to the rear of the fifth and sixth divisions. The Second Division, on McClernand's left, east and stretching to the river, was commanded by William Wallace--he was in the rear of the fourth division. The Third Division was commanded by Lew Wallace (eventual author of Ben Hur), who was posted far to the north on a river landing on the Tennessee River. The rain swollen Owl Creek separated him from the battlefield, and it was a march of seven miles to get to the Owl Creek Bridge. The Fourth Division was commanded by Stephen Hurlbut, and was on the Yankee left, loosely grouped in some woods north of the only large open space on the battlefield, next to the Tennesee River. The Fifth Division was commanded by William Sherman, was the largest division, and was almost entirely "green" troops, largely from Ohio (McClernand's First Division and the divisions of the two Wallaces were the only veteran troops, although some veteran regiments were in the Fourth and Sixth divisions). Sherman was posted on the right facing the road to Corinth, Mississippi, where the Confederates were last known to have been posted. To Sherman's left was the Sixth Division, commanded by B. M. Prentiss.

Albert Sidney Johnston was considered by Southerners to be the premier Southern soldier at the beginning of the war. But the war had gone badly for him, and the Yankees had pushed his troops back at all points. Consulting with Jefferson Davis and Lee, he was advised that he must take the offensive (a fatal policy of the Confederacy). Lee suggested that he strip the Gulf Coast defenses for troops, as the United States Navy did not then threaten that coast. Johnston assembled an army, and at the beginning of April, 1862, began to march north. His army was divided into four corps--the First Corps was commanded by the Reverend Leonidas Polk (Episcopal Archbishop of Louisiana), the Second Corps by Braxton Bragg, the Third Corps by William Hardee (he literally wrote the book--his textbook of infantry tactics was the infantry officer's "bible" in that war), and the Fourth or Reserve Corps was commanded by Kentucky's Favorite Son, John C. Breckenridge, the failed Presidential candidate who had split the Democratic Party and assured Lincoln's election.

Johnston marched north, and his army was as largely untried as Grant's. Polk's two divisions were experienced, and so were some of the brigades in Bragg's Second Corps, but largely, the forces on both side were raw troops who had never heard a gun fired in anger. Early on Sunday morning, Sherman's division was hit by Hardee's boys who came howling out of the woods as the Ohio boys were cooking their bacon an coffee. They scattered pretty quickly, but Hardee's line then dissolved as the Rebels broke up to loot the camp. Sherman rallied most of his division by a little church, Shiloh Meeting House--hence the name of the battle. Prentiss rode away toward Sherman's division as soon as he heard sounds of the battle, leaving Colonel Peabody, his senior brigade commander, in charge. Bishop Polks veterans advanced on his position, and Peabody put up a stiff fight. The heavy woods made movement difficult, and the Confederates even fired on their own troops in the gloom. The Crescent Regiment--New Orleans boys--were wearing their blue militia coats, and they were fired on by other Southerners. This, however, convinced Peabody and his officers that they were Yankees, and the Louisana boys marched right up to the flank of the line, and then attacked. The first Yankee line had now dissolved.

McClernand's veteran troops held their line well, but they were being swamped by fugitives from Sherman's division, and the Confederates who came up right behind them. He fell back toward Pittsburg landing on the river--and the fleeing troops went right along with him. William Wallace marched his Second division out, and was immediately shot. He was to die of wounds by the following day. Hurlbut's Fourth Division was well posted, but then, for no good reason, they advanced into the open ground to their front, and were taken in flank by Bragg's first division. To the right of Hurlbut was the sunken road and the peach orchard. Prentiss now showed up there, and rallied fragments of his Sixth division, along with portions of the Second division and the Fourth division. Bragg, always the military idiot, obliged by sending brigades against his line one at a time, unsupported. The slaughter was horrible. Johnston showed up, straightened out the mess, and sent the entire Second Corps in at once, and swamped the Yankees. Prentiss surrendered. Johnston has been hit by a spent musket ball, which did no great damage, but he slowly bled to death, because no one knew he was wounded until he fell off his horse. He died within an hour. Pierre Gustave Toutant (known as Beauregard) then took command.

Lew Wallace had immediately marched to the sound of the guns, and, having scouted the territory well, as he ought to have done, he was going down the road to the Owl Creek bridge. This would have put Grant's largest division on the flank and rear of the Confederate line. But Grant's aides rode up and insisted (stupidly) that he come to the Landing, so he reversed his division in the road (which took hours) and marched to Pittsburg Landing. He did not arrive until nightfall. There were ten thousand or more unarmed Yankees at the landing, who had thrown down their guns and run from the battle. Had the Confederates attacked, the remnants of McClernand's First Division likely could not have held them, but Beauregard, showing his monumental lack of military sense and talent, called of the attack. Late that evening, William "Bull" Nelson arrived with the Fourth Division of the Army of the Ohio (Don Carlos Buell commanding). It was a huge division of nearly ten thousand men--it made up for nearly all of Grant's losses. The rest of the slightly more than 20,000 men that Buell had brought to the party arrived overnight. (Grant was not the slickest tactical commander who ever took the field, but he was a good stategic thinker, and had ordered Buell to join him a week before the battle--as it was, Buell performed a wonder to bring so much of his army so far in just seven days.)

The next day, Buell's fresh troops and Lew Wallace's division drove the Confederates away from the landing. That poor map you have looks more like that battle than any other major battle of which i can think.

The names are confusing, and, i think, meaningless. The map is ridiculous.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 07:44 am
You may be right there, Francis--although i would hardly have called the fiasco at Cheat Mountain a battle. Joe Reynolds commanded the Yankees, but who was "Al" and who was "Heinrich?"
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 07:46 am
OK, you've got Robert Lee, Joe Reynolds and Albert Rust. The main Confederate commanders under Lee were W. W. Loring and John B. Floyd. You may be right, but they've stretched it. Who was "Heinrich?"
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 07:59 am
Heinrich was Henry Jackson.

Thank you for the help, Set. Any further developments will be welcome.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:02 am
The only "development" to which i would refer is Cheat Mountain having developed from a skirmish in the rain into a battle.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:08 am
That looks just a little bit like Alexander vs. the Triballians in his first campaign as King of Macedonia.

If I remember correctly, Heinrich, aka "Heinrich the Terrible", the second-in-command of the Triballian army, made a grievous tactical error that day that resulted in the unexpected defeat at the hands of Alexender.

The bookies had the Triballians as 3 - 1 favorites.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:13 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
That looks just a little bit like Alexander vs. the Triballians in his first campaign as King of Macedonia.

If I remember correctly, Heinrich, aka "Heinrich the Terrible", the second-in-command of the Triballian army, made a grievous tactical error that day that resulted in the unexpected defeat at the hands of Alexender.

The bookies had the Triballians as 3 - 1 favorites.


I heard you could get 8/1 when it began to look like rain.......the Macedonians could get discouraged in the mud.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:17 am
That is true, dlowan. The Macedonians were never known to be good "mudders"

You surprise me. I didn't realize you were a student of history.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:20 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
That is true, dlowan. The Macedonians were never known to be good "mudders"

You surprise me. I didn't realize you were a student of history.



Ahab to Xenophon, and all in between.


We Wabbits are renowned scholars.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:21 am
That's too late for the monkey wrench, Gus!
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:22 am
Let us speak of Darius.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:23 am
Francis, for some inexplicable reason, seems to get annoyed when I wander into a thread, monkey wrench in tow.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 08:25 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Let us speak of Darius.



Certainly....which one?


Darius the Great, perhaps?
0 Replies
 
 

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