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Why Iraq Was a Mistake

 
 
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 03:09 am
Quote:
http://img.timeinc.net/time/home/images/time_logo2.gif

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2006/0604/newbold0417.jpg
Lt. General GREGORY NEWBOLD, Retired director of operations at the Pentagon's military joint staff.

From the Magazine | Nation

Why Iraq Was a Mistake

A military insider sounds off against the war and the "zealots" who pushed it

By LIEUT. GENERAL GREG NEWBOLD (RET.)

From 2000 until October 2002, I was a Marine Corps lieutenant general and director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. After 9/11, I was a witness and therefore a party to the actions that led us to the invasion of Iraq--an unnecessary war. Inside the military family, I made no secret of my view that the zealots' rationale for war made no sense. And I think I was outspoken enough to make those senior to me uncomfortable. But I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat--al-Qaeda. I retired from the military four months before the invasion, in part because of my opposition to those who had used 9/11's tragedy to hijack our security policy. Until now, I have resisted speaking out in public. I've been silent long enough.

I am driven to action now by the missteps and misjudgments of the White House and the Pentagon, and by my many painful visits to our military hospitals. In those places, I have been both inspired and shaken by the broken bodies but unbroken spirits of soldiers, Marines and corpsmen returning from this war.

The cost of flawed leadership continues to be paid in blood.

Rest of the Article


It's good to hear someone who had power in the military speak these words and have these thoughts. it's too late for the 2,000 plus united states men and women who have lost their lives and the thousands who have come back from iraq less than whole (not even mentioning the devestation to native lives and land IN iraq), but there IS hope (i hope.....)

"Fool me once, shame on...me. Fool me Can't get fooled again" Sorry, it just needed to be said, especially since the people who tricked us into war with Iraq are now pulling the same stuff with Iran.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 03:49 am
There was no trick. 12 years after the end of Gilf War 1, it was not possible to determine whether Saddam Hussein still had WMD and WMD development programs. We could not allow doomsday weapons to fall into the hands of a madman. Had he acquired a stockpile of WMD, the world might have paid a terrible price later. This reasoning is not a "trick."
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 04:21 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
There was no trick. 12 years after the end of Gilf War 1, it was not possible to determine whether Saddam Hussein still had WMD and WMD development programs. We could not allow doomsday weapons to fall into the hands of a madman. Had he acquired a stockpile of WMD, the world might have paid a terrible price later. This reasoning is not a "trick."


The above is the most succinctly written regurgitation of this administration's propaganda I've ever read. The "Hook, Link and Sinker Award", previously won by folks such as Judith Miller, is in the mail.

Joe(It could not be determined if he had a gun, so I shot the guy anyway. Just in case.)Nation
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 05:59 am
The reasoning is not a trick. Brandon is correct here. It's no trick, but an outright criminal lie.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 08:52 am
Thank you for the link. That is a great article. I am waiting with baited breath to hear people support this particular troop.

But there is one thing I don't get....

The writer is critical of the Pentagon's high ranking military for not speaking up and demanding to be heard. He regrets not speaking louder himself.

Quote:
Flaws in our civilians are one thing; the failure of the Pentagon's military leaders is quite another. Those are men who know the hard consequences of war but, with few exceptions, acted timidly when their voices urgently needed to be heard. When they knew the plan was flawed, saw intelligence distorted to justify a rationale for war, or witnessed arrogant micromanagement that at times crippled the military's effectiveness, many leaders who wore the uniform chose inaction. A few of the most senior officers actually supported the logic for war. Others were simply intimidated, while still others must have believed that the principle of obedience does not allow for respectful dissent. The consequence of the military's quiescence was that a fundamentally flawed plan was executed for an invented war, while pursuing the real enemy, al-Qaeda, became a secondary effort.




So why has he waited four years to say anything?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 08:55 am
boomerang wrote:
Thank you for the link. That is a great article. I am waiting with baited breath to hear people support this particular troop.

But there is one thing I don't get....

The writer is critical of the Pentagon's high ranking military for not speaking up and demanding to be heard. He regrets not speaking louder himself.

Quote:
Flaws in our civilians are one thing; the failure of the Pentagon's military leaders is quite another. Those are men who know the hard consequences of war but, with few exceptions, acted timidly when their voices urgently needed to be heard. When they knew the plan was flawed, saw intelligence distorted to justify a rationale for war, or witnessed arrogant micromanagement that at times crippled the military's effectiveness, many leaders who wore the uniform chose inaction. A few of the most senior officers actually supported the logic for war. Others were simply intimidated, while still others must have believed that the principle of obedience does not allow for respectful dissent. The consequence of the military's quiescence was that a fundamentally flawed plan was executed for an invented war, while pursuing the real enemy, al-Qaeda, became a secondary effort.




So why has he waited four years to say anything?


I'd guess a combination of things, not the least of which would be that he made sure his butt was covered before he came forward. Why, are you suggesting something more underhanded?
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 08:57 am
No. I think it was CYA too.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 08:59 am
I hadn't seen this, but I think it's directly related to what I just said about Bush getting rid of people who are too uppity in their opposition, to anything. I think the culture from the top down in Washington for the past 6 years is go along with things or face the consequences. Say yes or get out.
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 09:06 am
This will make no difference. The Bush apologists will continue to do their lying, delusional two-step and American blood will continue soaking Iraqi sands until the nitwit leaves office.

The march of folly continues...
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:12 am
blacksmithn wrote:
This will make no difference. The Bush apologists will continue to do their lying, delusional two-step and American blood will continue soaking Iraqi sands until the nitwit leaves office.

The march of folly continues...


And not only that - Bush may have put into motion a scenario that will have American blood being spilt there for the next 10 years...
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:15 am
Agreed. If not longer.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:23 am
I think it might make a difference in that people might read this and realize that soldiers are not Borg but instead reasonable and intelligent men and women with individual ideas and voices.

I believe that within the culture of the military it is to dissent in private and to follow orders in public.

The current administration has decided to ignore many of the reasonable and intelligent voices and that makes it seem like there is a "yes man" mentality among commanding officers.

Despite their volunteer status, the military is a career for many people and as such there are practical considerations as well. Which, I'm sure, is why people retire and then wait four years to say anything. Or why other's stay thinking that perhaps the only way to effect change is from the inside where they might be ingorned but they might be heard too.

And the march of folly continues....
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:30 am
boomerang
Quote:
So why has he waited four years to say anything?


I can think of a couple of reasons - there are probably more.

1. He was a career Marine. I'm sure he expressed his thoughts among his peers and friends, but once an order is given and a policy is made, his duty was to carry out his orders to the best of his ability. Apparently, the direction he saw this country and the military taking in aggressively pursuing an unnecessary war was enough to get him to retire. Sounds like a stand-up guy and a good Marine to me.

2. If he spoke out too loudly while still in the Marines, he would have been too vulnerable to the retaliatory attacks this administration is known for (a la Wilson and Plame).

Of course, even now - retired from the military and a private citizen - Newbold is no more safe from attack than anyone else speaking out against the war (ah - flashback to the '60s) ... the Pentagon spies on anti-war demonstrators, the NSA eavesdrops on whatever conversations and emails they would like (no oversight, so why not?), etc., etc.

"The cost of flawed leadership continues to be paid in blood." - Newbold.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:31 am
Joe Nation wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
There was no trick. 12 years after the end of Gilf War 1, it was not possible to determine whether Saddam Hussein still had WMD and WMD development programs. We could not allow doomsday weapons to fall into the hands of a madman. Had he acquired a stockpile of WMD, the world might have paid a terrible price later. This reasoning is not a "trick."


The above is the most succinctly written regurgitation of this administration's propaganda I've ever read. The "Hook, Link and Sinker Award", previously won by folks such as Judith Miller, is in the mail.

Joe(It could not be determined if he had a gun, so I shot the guy anyway. Just in case.)Nation

I find it absolutely fascinating that no part of your post refutes any part of mine. I assert that you'd rather characterize my posts or me than answer them, because you can't refute the reasoning. In my experience, most of the liberals on this board will go to any length to avoid having to simply respond with dignity to a conservative argument.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:33 am
edgarblythe wrote:
The reasoning is not a trick. Brandon is correct here. It's no trick, but an outright criminal lie.

Accusing someone of lying used to be thought of as serious. I request clarification. Give me an example of one of my sentences that is a lie, give some evidence to support the idea that it's a lie (i.e. it is false and the speaker knew it when he said it), and state exactly which law I broke or the president broke.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:36 am
Do you know why Brandon9000 always wins his debate, because he uses words like 'liberals' :wink:
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:37 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
There was no trick. 12 years after the end of Gilf War 1, it was not possible to determine whether Saddam Hussein still had WMD and WMD development programs. We could not allow doomsday weapons to fall into the hands of a madman. Had he acquired a stockpile of WMD, the world might have paid a terrible price later. This reasoning is not a "trick."


The above is the most succinctly written regurgitation of this administration's propaganda I've ever read. The "Hook, Link and Sinker Award", previously won by folks such as Judith Miller, is in the mail.

Joe(It could not be determined if he had a gun, so I shot the guy anyway. Just in case.)Nation

I find it absolutely fascinating that no part of your post refutes any part of mine. I assert that you'd rather characterize my posts or me than answer them, because you can't refute the reasoning. In my experience, most of the liberals on this board will go to any length to avoid having to simply respond with dignity to a conservative argument.
Assumes facts not in evidence, to wit that a conservative argument-- consisting as they generally do of a mindless regurgitation of the Republican Party's talking points-- is WORTH a dignified response.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:38 am
"We want the ones who can be fooled ALL THE TIME!!"

George Bush
Chickenshit In Chief
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:39 am
freedom4free wrote:
Do you know why Brandon9000 always wins his debate, because he uses words like 'liberals' :wink:

Another liberal who escapes from his inability to defend his viewpoint with reasoning, by making comments about the poster.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 10:41 am
blacksmithn wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
There was no trick. 12 years after the end of Gilf War 1, it was not possible to determine whether Saddam Hussein still had WMD and WMD development programs. We could not allow doomsday weapons to fall into the hands of a madman. Had he acquired a stockpile of WMD, the world might have paid a terrible price later. This reasoning is not a "trick."


The above is the most succinctly written regurgitation of this administration's propaganda I've ever read. The "Hook, Link and Sinker Award", previously won by folks such as Judith Miller, is in the mail.

Joe(It could not be determined if he had a gun, so I shot the guy anyway. Just in case.)Nation

I find it absolutely fascinating that no part of your post refutes any part of mine. I assert that you'd rather characterize my posts or me than answer them, because you can't refute the reasoning. In my experience, most of the liberals on this board will go to any length to avoid having to simply respond with dignity to a conservative argument.
Assumes facts not in evidence, to wit that a conservative argument-- consisting as they generally do of a mindless regurgitation of the Republican Party's talking points-- is WORTH a dignified response.

In debate, no statement of the sort, "I will not refute your reasoning because it is beneath my dignity" has any validity or merit. Such statements must all be taken as, and likely are, simply signs that the individual is unable to defend his ideas.
0 Replies
 
 

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