50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 09:56 am
Nothing personal Walter.

But, from what I have heard, Germany's immigration policies are causing problems that are worse then the US is experiencing-- including an volatile underclass and racial tensions.

I don't think the US wants to emulate German immigration policy.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 09:56 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Apparently some in our USA local, state, and federal governments are going that route too. But do German citizens need work permits too?

No, they don't -- just as US citizens don't need Green Cards in America.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 09:57 am
Foxfyre wrote:
But do German citizens need work permits too?
No.

Foxfyre wrote:
If Walter believes I am a German citizen, and I am not, then is he still liable for hiring an illegal?


Well, I would see what nationality you are when you start working.
'Believe' is something related to church and religion, but not when engaging an employe or worker.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 09:59 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Nothing personal Walter.

But, from what I have heard, Germany's immigration policies are causing problems that are worse then the US is experiencing-- including an volatile underclass and racial tensions.

I don't think the US wants to emulate German immigration policy.


I don't think that we have an immigration policy at all.

However, I'm not sure to what problems you referring.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 09:59 am
ebrown_p wrote:
I don't think the US wants to emulate German immigration policy.

I'm not aware that Walter is defending our immigration policies. Indeed, if I remember correctly, he and I agreed early in this thread that the European Union's immigration policies are even worse than the United States'.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 10:01 am
Thomas wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
I don't think the US wants to emulate German immigration policy.

I'm not aware that Walter is defending our immigration policies. Indeed, if I remember correctly, he and I agreed early in this thread that the European Union's immigration policies are even worse than the United States'.


Well, this really is one of the two topics where the two of agree ...... completely, I mean (forgetting for this moment that Thomas is a Bavarian and liberal Laughing ).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 10:02 am
Thomas wrote:
I agreed early in this thread that the European Union's immigration policies are even worse than the United States'.


I even don't think, they have any polica - just some unworkable and obscure ideas ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jul, 2006 10:03 am
.... and even worse laws and regulations.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 11:10 am
From Today's LA Times. The Institute's poll was framed as follows:

Which would you prefer:
1) Congress does nothing about immigration reform this year, or

2) Congress passes an immigration reform bill that provides for increased border security and tougher enforcement but also contains things you do not like, such as amnesty for current illegal immigrants?"

The majority went with 2.

I wonder how the majority would have voted if the poll had included a third option:

3) Congress passes an immigration reform bill that provides effective border security and effective enforcement, requires English, requires a loyalty oath to the USA and relinquishing of any dual citizenship, and provides tougher admission to citizenship for those here on work permits than is required for those applying for citizenship through traditional channels. Those here illegally would not be eligible for citizenship under any circumstances. Then a separate bill will set the standard for immigration quotas and more streamlined policies for application and the regulations for temporary work permits based on employer needs.

I would bet an expensive steak dinner that a pretty good majority would go with Option 3. I would bet a week's pay that a pretty good majority would rather have no bill at all than one that will make things worse than they are.

Amnesty Is Not a Four-Letter WordSOURCE
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jul, 2006 11:36 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/29/nyregion/29student.html?th&emc=th

July 29, 2006
Senegalese Teenager Wins Right to Study in the U.S.
0 Replies
 
jla314
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 10:55 am
The Answer is very Simple--
Attrition through Enforcement. If employers faced stiff fines and/or jail time, illegals would just go back home. Right now--the US is a magnet for illegals. We could save billions of taxpayer dollars on fences.

BUT HOW DO WE GET WASHINGTON TO FULFILL THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC? Does anyone have an answer?

The President/Executive is not enforcing our immigration laws. And, Congressional campaigns are financed by Big Business. Therefore, Congress has no interest in the American worker and our future.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 11:31 am
jla314, First of all, WELCOME to A2K. Your message is the same as mine; our government hasn't been enforcing laws already on the books. That congress meanders to write new laws is just a waste of time - and money.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 09:08 pm
c.i. has a stake in the game. Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah. c.i. has a stake in the game.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2006 08:01 am
cjhsa wrote:
c.i. has a stake in the game. Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah. c.i. has a stake in the game.
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2006 10:07 am
Quote:

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7900/zwischenablage00sc9.jpghttp://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7595/zwischenablage01as6.jpghttp://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6938/zwischenablage02nq8.jpg
[...]
Just as Mexicans are the largest immigrant group in the United States, Americans are the largest immigrant group in Mexico. And of the 4 million to 6 million American citizens who live outside the United States, the U.S. Bureau of Consular Affairs says, more are in Mexico than in any other nation.

In this former fishing town on the shores of Lake Chapala, Americans have created a community that bears a striking similarity to immigrant communities in the United States. A critical mass of Americans here has made this place feel a lot like -- well, like America.

Think waffles for breakfast, imported Wisconsin cheddar cheese, WGN-TV. Think Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, Catholic mass and a 30,000-book library -- all in English.

"There's nothing you can't get," says Steimle, who moved here almost four years ago for the climate and the affordability, and because after years in the Southwest she was comfortable in a Hispanic culture. Steimle says that some days she hears less Spanish spoken in Ajijic than she did in Sante Fe.

... ... ...


Source: Chicago Tribune, 23.08.2006, Section 2, page 1 & 6; online version of that report.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2006 10:40 am
I wonder if the American immigrants in Mexico cause the same sort of bigoted folks to make statements like these:

Quote:
Buchanan Argues For Immigration Moratorium To Preserve White Dominance
In his new book, State of Emergency, Pat Buchanan argues for "an immediate moratorium on all immigration." Why? To preserve the dominance of the white race in America. Buchanan explains on pg. 11:

America faces an existential crisis. If we do not get control of our borders, by 2050 Americans of European descent will be a minority in the nation their ancestors created and built. No nation has ever undergone so radical a demographic transformation and survived.

Indeed, Buchanan argues quite explicitly that only whites have the appropriate "genetic endowments" to keep America from collapsing. From pg. 164:

In 1994, Sam Francis, the syndicated columnist and editorial writer for the Washington Times…volunteered this thought:

"The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted by a different people."

Had Francis said this of Chinese civilization and the Chinese people, it would have gone unnoted. But he was suggesting Western civilization was superior and that only Europeans could have created it. If Western peoples perish, as they are doing today, Francis was implying, we must expect our civilization to die with us. No one would deny that when the Carthaginians perished, Carthaginian civilization and culture perished. But by claiming the achievements of the West for Europeans, Francis had passed beyond the bounds of tolerance. He was summarily fired.

Buchanan goes on to praise those who, implicitly or explicitly, talk about the genetic superiority of the white race, including John Rocker of the Atlanta Braves, Bell Curve authors Richard Hernstein and Charles Murray, and Al Campanis of the Los Angeles Dodgers. (Campanis said that blacks "may not have the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or, perhaps, a general manager." He added that blacks were often poor swimmers "because they don't have the buoyancy.")

Buchanan calls Francis views on white racial superiority the "Great Taboo." But refusing to acknowledge it, according to Buchanan, is "like not telling one's doctor of a recurring pain that could kill you."

Buchanan has been showered with attention from cable and network television to spread his book's message.


Quote:


(link to video at the source . )
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Aug, 2006 06:15 am
The following is a pure opinion piece, but it is eloquently stated and, given the inertia in Washington over this issue, it speaks to a growing grass roots movement and also the racism issue.

August 31, 2006
Leave Racism Charges Out of Immigration Debate
By Mark Davis
Farmers Branch, Texas.

The name suggests a babbling brook running through fields of freshly baled hay. The reality is Interstate 35 running through blocks of suburban homes and businesses northwest of Dallas.

But there's still plenty of babbling. Farmers Branch has become the latest epicenter for the type of shrill protest that arises whenever anyone suggests getting serious about our immigration laws. First came Hazleton, Pa., where Mayor Lou Barletta pushed the Illegal Immigration Relief Act, punishing landlords who rent to illegal aliens and businesses who hire them. English became the town's official language, eliminating polylingual legal documents and signs.

Communities across America are considering doing the same, but it is in Farmers Branch where City Council member Tim O'Hare stepped forward to say that illegal immigrants are responsible for many of the city's problems.

There is nothing in his slate of Hazleton-style proposals that would make life one speck more difficult for the numerous city residents who are English-speaking legal immigrants.

But with annoying predictability, along came the catcalls of racism. The League of United Latin American Citizens and other voices of Hispanic advocacy rushed to slap a clumsy label of bigotry onto anyone agreeing with the new proposals.

"Farmers Branch is now going to be a city of hate," moaned former LULAC national president Hector Flores. "The Statue of Liberty must be crying right now."

Maybe she's just gagging from such ridiculous rhetoric. If Lady Liberty has anything to truly cry about, it is the sad fact that immigration has deteriorated from something that made America great to something that threatens its very future.

In the 50 years from the Industrial Revolution to the Great Depression, millions of people flowed into America dedicated to embracing our culture, learning our language and assimilating into our value system.

Those traits are all too rare today, even among some legal immigrants. Add in millions of people who thwart our nation's laws the moment they arrive, and you have the crisis that faces us today.

Our porous borders are proof that the federal government lacks the spine and resolve to close them to illegals and deport the ones we find. Millions of Americans, starving for reforms that respect our laws and borders, will take whatever they can get, even if it's just some get-tough measures from City Hall.

U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas seeks to dissuade communities from enacting immigrant-related local measures, arguing that such matters should be addressed in Washington.

Well, wouldn't it be a grand day if her constituents had a lick of hope that something might actually happen? In this mealy-mouthed era of guest worker programs and a "welcoming country," even Republicans cannot be counted on to stand up for effective borders and the rule of law.

Let's have our federal officials butt out of what cities might wish to do in the absence of leadership from beneath the Capitol dome. If towns in Texas or Pennsylvania or anywhere else want to enact measures that deal with a problem Washington doesn't have the stomach for, let's have those debates in those towns.

But let's have them rationally.


All who oppose laws cracking down on illegals must purge all baseless, slanderous reflex cries of racism from their arguments. I know that the vast majority of illegals in America are from Latin America. But in many places (like Farmers Branch, for example), so are the vast majority of law-abiding, English-speaking immigrants who are part of what make their communities and our country great. They are welcomed with open arms by Mr. Barletta, Mr. O'Hare and all of us who want tougher immigration laws.

This is not racial. It is behavioral. And as long as the federal status quo, from the president on down, refuses to provide remedies, local governments will be tempted to pick up the slack.

SOURCE
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Aug, 2006 10:08 am
Foxfyre, This is almost too funny.

Conservatives lament that White people are losing their majority status. Conservatives attack the loyalty of American citizens with Hispanic surnames who are politically active. Conservatives are attacking multiculturalism-- the very idea that other cultures (other than the dominant white Christian culture) should be accepted and tolerated.

At every immigration protest I have been to, the Confederate flag was prominantly displayed by folks in the other side.

It is not Liberals who are bringing racism into the discussion.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Aug, 2006 10:09 am
Well I didn't expect you to be objective about it ebrown. And you rarely disappoint my expectations.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Aug, 2006 10:19 am
As I have said before, if the immigration debate was simply a debate aabout the balance between Law and Order and compassion, I would be very happy. Even in this discussion I offered to frame the debate this way.

The biggest problem with this is that your side (present company included) keeps making ethnic/racial based arguments.

The second biggest problem is that your side-- although it says that following the law is the most important thing-- often advocates breaking the law.

It would make one think that this is just a political smokescreen for some other goal.
0 Replies
 
 

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