What should be done about illegal immigration?

I would stick my neck out and say OBill treats all his employees well, because they are hard workers and earn their keep - whether they are legally or illegally here in the US.

If I were in his shoes, I'd do the same.

It's up to the government to enforce what they write; otherwise there's no reason to blame employers for the lack of federal government oversight on immigration.

Most Americans want some ways to let illegals gain citizenshp through a humane process. I like that idea too!

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I don't.

Illegal is illegal. What gets my goat is those who have gone through the process and still support amnesty.

They should be deported as well.

I suspect you have a stake in the game c.i.

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And oh yeah, "most Americans" oppose hunting, until the dangerous wildlife shows up in their backyard, which they built where the wildlife lives. I shouldn't have to explain the stupidity factor....

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What stake? I've been retired since 1998, and have not been involved in hiring or firing in any work environment as a manager - except for the occasional maintenance guy that does some chores around the house that I used to do in my younger days. When I pick up somebody from Home Depot, I don't ask them for their birth certificate or green card, and I usually pay them a decent hourly wage.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

What stake? ... When I pick up somebody from Home Depot, I don't ask them for their birth certificate or green card, and I usually pay them a decent hourly wage.

Can't you just smell the hipocrite? Jeesh, I think that deserves a double "p".

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cjh wrote:
"...dangerour wildlife..."

You're sick, man. We're talking about humans that are seeking to better their lives.

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Cicerone,

You are arguing with a man who posts content from neo-Nazi websites.

He seemed to find the video game where you score points for shooting pregnant Mexican women amusing.

I think you should ignore him if you don't want to be offended.

I also find it troubling that Foxfyre and the other people who are trying to frame their position in this debate as "moderate" didn't say anything about CJ's offensive posts.

Are you guys opposed to racism? Then please oppose it.

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I'm nowhere near as offensive as creeps who want to deny a country's right to protect its own borders.

I never posted directly from any neo-nazi site. That "game" was copied from someone else's post. I'm sure you'd be surprised at who posted it if you could find it (I don't remember exactly who it was), but it was a very liberal member of A2K who obviously does hang out at those kind of sites.

I think if you look here, you will also discover that the "neo nazis" are as big a part of the left wing culture as they are of the right. Don't fool yourself.

http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

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cjhsa wrote:

I think if you look here, you will also discover that the "neo nazis" are as big a part of the left wing culture as they are of the right. Don't fool yourself.

It's the very first time that I've heard a neo-nazi could be left (and hell, I know about this sub-culture Crying or Very sad

).

Do you have something more about this than just your opinion?

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ebrown, I know what you mean. cjh talkes about "protecting our borders," but fails to acknowledge the simple fact that our federal government has failed to enforce laws already on the books about illegal immigration. Guess which party dropped the ball on illegal immigration, and the party now in power that can't even develop new laws that will agree with what most Americans want.

They want to hold "hearings." What a sham!

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Follow the link.

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c.i. - I have repeatedly stated I do not side with the administration on this issue. Why do you then continue with your stale argument?

If our government won't do it, then private citizens will, as long as the pro-illegals stop tearing down the fences.

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cjh, You're putting the cart before the horse - in case you didn't know that! Why cry about illegal immigration if our government does nothing?

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My post was not addressed to CJ.... My challenge is for Foxfyre et. al. (who are desparately trying to make the point that their side isn't based on racism).

When someone on my side of an argument posts clearly racist statements, I always challenge them-- usually very forcefully. This has happened several times in the anti-Iraq war threads, and some of the other threads where anti-Semitic conspiracy theories have been thrown around by people alleging to agree with me.

CJ posted a game that reward the shooting of Mexican pregnant women who the game writers refer to as "breeders".

I promise you that if someone on my side of any argument posted something as obviously racist as that-- I would have been the first post to denounce it.

What say you Foxfyre... you say you are against racism. Are you really against the racist elements of your side of the debate?

I am giving you a chance to practice what you preach.

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ebrown_p wrote:

CJ posted a game that reward the shooting of Mexican pregnant women who the game writers refer to as "breeders".

Correction. I reposted that. And I'm quite sure I captioned it "This is just wrong" or something to that effect.

At the same time, in my previous hometown in California, most if not all of the 14-year old latino women were either pregnant or pushing baby carriages around all day when they should have been in school, learning English perhaps. This is based on direct observation. Of course the first thing they want to do when they get here is get pregnant. It makes them basically impossible to deport if they can get the kid out fast enough.

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CJ keeps on adding racially charged statement to the list.

Foxfyre... please comment on this last CJ preposterous ethnic stereotype.

CJ wrote:

in my previous hometown in California, most if not all of the 14-year old latino women were either pregnant or pushing baby carriages around all day when they should have been in school

This is in all probability a lie based on nothing but prejudice in an attempt to demonize "latino [sic] women". I highly doubt there are any towns in California where "most" of the 14-year old women of any ethnic group are pregnant or have children.

Of course, the pregnancy rates (and the high school drop out rates) are easily available for any town... if CJ would like to give us the name of his previous hometown, we can check. If it has anything close to a 50% pregnancy rate (and I am being generous about the phrase "most if not all") for 14 year old girls of hispanic descent, I will retract my assertion that this remark is based on racist stereotypes.

But Foxfyre... do you support CJ in his attempt to use racist comments to support your position?

Or are you willing to reject the racist parts of this argument?

CJ, I do thank you for demonstrating my point about racism at the core of much of the anti-"illegal"-immigrant movement.

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BM.

Clean up your own house before criticizing mine.

If disliking you makes me a racist, then I accept the label.

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I have no interest in what race, color, creed, ethnicity, or country of origin a person is from, and I don't even care what hockey team they support or wheher they say too-MAY-to or too-MAH-to.

No manner of ad hominems, overt or implied, slung in my direction can make me or anybody else a racist just because I or anybody else believes nobody, from anywhere, should be able to thumb their noses at U.S. law or that those who want to be here should want to be Americans first including accepting the language, customs, and values.

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You are avoiding my question Foxfyre. A "Yes" or "No" answer is fine.

There are people on your side of the argument who are using clearly racist statements including ethnic jokes and racial stereotypes. CJ gave some prime examples.

Yes or No... are you willing to condemn these statements? Please answer the question yes or no... then you can elaborate if you want.

I am not asking you if there are people who aren't racists who are against illegal immigration. I already agree with you on this point (i.e. I accept that not everybody who opposes a path to citizenship is racist).

What I am hoping is that you and I can agree that the use of ethnically based stereotypes is unacceptable on any side of this (or any debate).

These folks are on your side. I will condemn them... will you condemn them with me?

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ebrown_p wrote:

You are avoiding my question Foxfyre. A "Yes" or "No" answer is fine.

There are people on your side of the argument who are using clearly racist statements including ethnic jokes and racial stereotypes. CJ gave some prime examples.

Yes or No... are you willing to condemn these statements? Please answer the question yes or no... then you can elaborate if you want.

I am not asking you if there are people who aren't racists who are against illegal immigration. I already agree with you on this point (i.e. I accept that not everybody who opposes a path to citizenship is racist).

What I am hoping is that you and I can agree that the use of ethnically based stereotypes is unacceptable on any side of this (or any debate).

These folks are on your side. I will condemn them... will you condemn them with me?

Then ask your questions of them eBrown. I am not concerned with what others think. I am concerned with what I think and how well I am represented by my lawfully elected representatives. I am not taking shots at others who disagree with me. And I won't be drawn into any kind of pissing match with you or anybody else.

If you wish to discuss concepts and ideas and different ways of looking at this, fine. But so far you've done little but make unfounded inferences about me and a few others and offered your heartfelt compassionate feelings as logical solutions, which is your right. And it is my right to dismiss ad hominems as irrelevent in civil debate and to consider feelings as a pretty thin basis on which to develop national policy.

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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