50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 03:09 pm
el_Pohl, a correction of eBrown's correction of your English:

From the Merriam Webster abridged dictionary:
Main Entry: man·i·fes·ta·tion
Function: noun
Pronunciation: "ma-n&-f&-'stA-sh&n, -"fe-'stA-
1 a : the act, process, or an instance of manifesting b : something that manifests or is manifest c : one of the forms in which an individual is manifested d : an occult phenomenon ; specifically : MATERIALIZATION
2 : a public demonstration of power and purpose

As you can see, while the No. 2 definition is not commonly used here, your translation of manisfestacion into 'manisfestation' was absolutely correct.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 03:15 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Just one question MM. How does the employer determine that the SS card is fake?


Go to the SS admin website...
http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm

And get step-by-step directions,links,and forms.


Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder though, does this mean any Tom, Dick or Harry can access this system and get my social security number?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 03:35 pm
Foxfyre,

Que intelligente eres! Es claro que poseas un gran conocimiento de espanol y que puedas distinguir los sentidos de las palabras en ingles y espanol.

Es cierto que entiendas perfectemente que en espanol la palabra <<manifestacion>> puede significar un grupo de personas, como una protesta.

Yo nunca uso la palabra <<manisfestacion>> en ingles en esta manera.

Recuerdo que no entendiste bien que significa la palabra <<la raza>> tampoco. Tal vez el problema es que aprendes tu espanol de los commentarios de Rush Limbaugh.

((El Pohl, agredecere si me corriges en qualquiera cosa...))
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 05:32 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Just one question MM. How does the employer determine that the SS card is fake?


Go to the SS admin website...
http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm

And get step-by-step directions,links,and forms.


Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder though, does this mean any Tom, Dick or Harry can access this system and get my social security number?


Why would any rational, intelligent person possibly conceive this could be the case? And, remember, it was Outfoxed who was impugning the lintelligence of others earlier in the thread!
0 Replies
 
el pohl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 06:06 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Foxfyre,

Que intelligente eres! Es claro que poseas un gran conocimiento de espanol y que puedas distinguir los sentidos de las palabras en ingles y espanol.

Es cierto que entiendas perfectemente que en espanol la palabra <<manifestacion>> puede significar un grupo de personas, como una protesta.

Yo nunca uso la palabra <<manisfestacion>> en ingles en esta manera.

Recuerdo que no entendiste bien que significa la palabra <<la>> tampoco. Tal vez el problema es que aprendes tu espanol de los commentarios de Rush Limbaugh.

((El Pohl, agredecere si me corriges en qualquiera cosa...))


Todo bien, excepto el "cualquiera cosa". Que sea "Cualquier cosa". Eso de los géneros se les complica a ustedes, jaja. Wink Sorprendente.

But I think I'm good then, yay! Reaching the 100th page...
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 06:30 pm
Yo canto mejor que yo habla y hablo mejor que escribo.

Somehow it seems I should use a different tense?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 06:41 pm
Mi esposa es Mexicana. Usamos espanol en la casa. Pues, puedo hablar mejor que escribir.

Es importante para nosotros que los ninos hablan las dos idiomas, y es facil para ellos aprender ingles en la escuela o de la tele.

Mi nina de 14 meses ya conoce tres palabras, <<mama>>, <<dada>> (que en realidad es ingles pero papa es su abuelo) y su palabra nueva-- <<perro>>.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 06:51 pm
Pictures from Union Square, New York City 6pm today

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/8782/theflagseller1dy.jpg

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/615/thecrowd8br.jpg

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7136/thecrowd32va.jpg

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/865/oncamera21si.jpg

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/6708/filmateleven7jk.jpg

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/3965/flags0bu.jpg

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/8623/boycotttruck7uf.jpg

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/5531/amnesty0wy.jpg

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/4739/giante7dx.jpg
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 06:53 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Mi esposa es Mexicana. Usamos espanol en la casa. Pues, puedo hablar mejor que escribir.

Es importante para nosotros que los ninos hablan las dos idiomas, y es facil para ellos aprender ingles en la escuela o de la tele.

Mi nina de 14 meses ya conoce tres palabras, <<mama>>, <<dada>> (que en realidad es ingles pero papa es su abuelo) y su palabra nueva-- <<perro>>.


Very Happy

(And yes: "manifestación" is demonstration in English).[/I]
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 07:41 pm
McGentrix wrote:
nimh wrote:
In countries like Germany, you have (or had, until very recently) to be of German 'blood' to get citizenship at birth.

America, with France, has always represented the opposite: anyone who is born there, is American (or Frenchman).

America the political nation (of citizens) - versus Germany (and the like), the ethnic nation. Thats been essential to the political identity of the US, to its very core values. Its not who or what your pa or granpa was or where he was from that counts - everyone gets an equal shot!

Myth as much as reality, but there it is: it's a quintessentially American myth. One you're ready to just do away with. Unamerican.

Another thing, no one is saying all immigration should stop, just ILLEGAL immigration. You seem to believe that by closing our borders to ILLEGAL immigrants that that is the same as stopping ALL immigrantion and that is just not the case at all. Obeying the law is a VERY American thing to do.

You seem to be trying to imply some subtle message that just isn't working. Keep in mind that I am in no way suggesting we stop immigration. You seem to have that idea in your head.

Mwah, hadnt even gone there. In fact, I dont see much of any correlation between your answer here and the point I was making.

The idea that whoever is born in America is American - that one doesnt have to prove that one has sufficient American 'blood' or anything - has been a quintessential American value, one that set nations like the Americans and French apart from the, in their view, backward and intolerant tradition of Old Europe's "ethnic nations". You are suggesting throwing that overboard, and excluding American-born children from foreign parents from American citizenship.

Considering how fundamental the principle of ius solis has been to the very concept of American nationhood, I would call that a very un-American suggestion.

No, still dont see the relation between that point and your response.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 07:44 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I wonder how many of the rest of you posting on this thread have been asked for ID before you were hired to do whatever you do?

Echoing Walter - when I got a job contract in the Netherlands, I had to provide a copy of my passport. Standard procedure. Takes five minutes for me, five minutes for my employer.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 07:47 pm
THE STATUE OF LIBERTY


The Statue of Liberty faces outward toward the nations. She holds aloft the torch of freedom, the flame of hope, the principle of equality for all people, the promise of the future. She holds this torch high in the daytime and during the night as well. She shines her light in the midst of darkness. Her strength is in her right arm and her right arm carries the strength of God. She represents hope to the hopeless, welcome to the poor and the meek. She faces outward toward the ocean; her lamp, a beacon on stormy seas. Behind and within her is the will of God, saying through her: "Welcome, my beloved children. Welcome to the Golden Door."

Her vibration is increasingly needed when the sea of world events becomes more stormy, the waves higher. At a time of unrest her light seems reassuring, her presence, a guarantor of safety. At such time she represents liberty and fraternity - the gift of one nation to another, both valuing freedom. At a time of turbulence or upheaval her light is salvation, her countenance, protection. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

The following poem called The New Colossus, written in 1883 by Emma Lazarus, appears on the pedestal of the Statue:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name,
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 07:51 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Poll: US-Mexico border opinions differ

WASHINGTON, June 12 (UPI) -- Nearly three out of five Mexicans believe there should be no border control for Mexican nationals crossing into the United States, while two-thirds of U.S. citizens do not believe illegal aliens in the country should be granted amnesty, a poll released Tuesday stated.

The poll was commissioned by Americans for Immigration Control Inc.

I often defend polls here against those who say all of 'em are bull (and Zogby, in particular, is normally routinely discounted by those on McG's and Fox's side, not always justly).

There is, however, one important filter. Polls overall do the best they can to reflect the public opinion of the moment (they should never be ascribed prognosticatory powers). But commissioned polls should not be trusted. All the more if they've been commisioned by some political lobby group or other that has a strong stake in the issue itself.

Period - if you want to remain trustworthy, skip polls that have been commisioned by some political group or business or other. This one "was commissioned by Americans for Immigration Control" - nuff said.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 08:17 pm
nimh wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
I wonder how many of the rest of you posting on this thread have been asked for ID before you were hired to do whatever you do?

Echoing Walter - when I got a job contract in the Netherlands, I had to provide a copy of my passport. Standard procedure. Takes five minutes for me, five minutes for my employer.


Most Americans don't have passports.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 08:56 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
I wonder how many of the rest of you posting on this thread have been asked for ID before you were hired to do whatever you do?


Haven't you hired anybody lately? Anybody who has gotten a job in the past ten to fifteen years or so has had to provide an I-9.

LINK

Quote:
All U.S. employers are responsible for completion and retention of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must verify the employment eligibility and identity documents presented by the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9.
Emphasis mine.

Joe(We have to ask for ID to sell spray paint in NYC)Nation
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:06 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
I wonder how many of the rest of you posting on this thread have been asked for ID before you were hired to do whatever you do?


Haven't you hired anybody lately? Anybody who has gotten a job in the past ten to fifteen years or so has had to provide an I-9.

LINK

Quote:
All U.S. employers are responsible for completion and retention of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must verify the employment eligibility and identity documents presented by the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9.
Emphasis mine.

Joe(We have to ask for ID to sell spray paint in NYC)Nation


All I'm saying is I wasn't asked for ID on any job I've applied for and/or gotten in the last 30 years nor have I completed a 1-9 on anybody I've hired. This is probably SOP for people getting paid in any capacity by the government but it does not seem to be observed by much of anybody else.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:11 pm
Form I-9: Requirement to Verify Employment Eligibility
Click for a Printable Version of this Article

EMPLOYMENT LAW FACT SHEET

By Laurie M. Johnston and Carolyn S. Lee*

The Immigration and Nationality Act requires employers to verify all employees' identity and eligibility to work in the United States. Employers must complete a Form I-9 for all employees, even U.S. citizens. The form must be retained by the employer and may be requested for review by the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (BICE) (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service or "INS") or during a wage and hour audit by the Department of Labor.

Form I-9 requires the employee to produce documents showing his or her eligibility to work in the United States and the employer to examine those documents. Both must sign Form I-9. The form is then retained by the employer.

Who must complete an I-9?

* Form I-9s must be completed and retained for all employees hired after November 6, 1986.
* This requirement applies to all employers; there is no minimum number of employees.
* Not covered: casual hires, independent contractors and employees of independent contractors, domestic servants in B-1 status, and B-1 trainees on short term training programs.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:14 pm
Quote:
By the early 1990s, employer sanctions was a dead letter, rarely enforced by the government and mostly ignored by the nation's employers. Not one American in 50 today knows what an I-9 form is, although the law still requires those of us who work to complete them.

ARTICLE POSTED HERE

If I'm wrong about this then I'm wrong, but I honestly haven't thought about a Form 1-9 since the 1980's and didn't think about them a whole bunch then. In truth I have been self emplyed much of the time since then and most people I've hired have been independent contractors. I have had employees, though, and went through one wage hour audit and nobody said a word about 1-9s. But maybe in some areas and apparently in some occupations it is important.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:27 pm
24% Have Favorable Opinion of Protesters
Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters


April 29-30, 2006

Immigrant Rights Protesters

Favorable 24%
Unfavorable 52%
RasmussenReports.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Amnesty

Favor 12%
Oppose 67%
RasmussenReports.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earned Citizenship

Favor 53%
Oppose 31%
RasmussenReports.com

May 1, 2006--Heading into a day of planned protests and boycotts for immigrant rights, just 24% of American voters have a favorable opinion of the people who have recently marched and protested for immigrant rights in major cities. A Rasmussen Reports national opinion survey of 1,000 Likely Voters conducted on the eve of the May 1 events found that 52% have an unfavorable opinion of the marchers (see earlier results).

Fourteen percent (14%) of voters believe that those who want to restrict illegal immigration are racist. Sixty-seven percent (67%) disagree.

Rasmussen Reports will ask the same survey questions on May 1 and 2 to measure any changes resulting from the protests. Crosstabs are available for Premium Members.

One organizer of today's protests said that the goal was to obtain "full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally). Just 12% of American voters support that goal, 73% are opposed.

At the same time, 56% believe that our national policy goal should be to welcome all immigrants except national security threats, criminals, and those who would live off the U.S. welfare system. Just 26% oppose this goal.

As we have found in earlier surveys, Republicans are a bit more likely than other voters to support an enforcement first policy. Republicans are also a bit more likely than others to support a policy that welcomes all immigrants except those who are a threat.

The survey also found that 67% of Americans believe that the U.S. should enforce existing laws and gain control of the border before new reforms are considered. Seventy percent (70%) favor strict penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.

Recently, proposals have been made that would allow "earned citizenship" for those who are in the United States illegally. To test support for this concept, Rasmussen Reports asked about a proposal that "would let illegal aliens eventually become citizens if they pay a fine for entering the country illegally, pay all back taxes, and learn to speak English."

Fifty-three percent (53%) of voters support this proposal while 31% are opposed. However, support increases a bit when respondents are told to assume that the federal government was actively enforcing existing laws and had gained control of the border--56% favor, 29% oppose.

While the overall change is not significant, most of the increased support comes from voters who are not affiliated with either the Republican party or the Democrats.

Fifty percent (50%) of American voters believe that illegal immigrants reduce wages for working class Americans. Twenty-eight percent (38%) disagree.

Other survey data found that American voters were more likely to favor a Congressional candidate who emphasizes enforcement of existing laws rather than one who prefers expanding legal job opportunities for foreign workers. Thirty-eight percent (38%) of voters now trust Democrats more than Republicans on the issue of immigration. Thirty-five percent (35%) have more trust in the GOP. That's a slight improvement for Republicans from the last time we asked this question. Among those who consider the issue very important, Republicans retain an edge on this question.

A look at all of our research on this topic makes it clear that neither political party has yet developed policy or rhetoric that reflect an understanding of the nuances of the immigration debate. We have recently released immigration related polling data on April 26, April 11, April 7, and April 1.

Earlier surveys on immigration have found support for building a barrier along the Mexican border and positive attitudes towards citizen patrols along the border. Another survey found that most Americans consider current immigration laws a threat to both national security and the economy. Three-fourths of all Americans believe it is too easy for people from other countries to enter the United States.

Attitudes towards immigration do not fall neatly along typical partisan, demographic, or ideological lines. For this reason, among others, the immigration issue ultimately has the potential to shake up the current partisan alignment in the nation.

However, the impact of the issue varies widely by region. In several southwestern states, the issue is considered more important than the situation in Iraq by roughly half of all voters.
--Rasmussen Reports
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:40 pm
The survey proves that the majority do not agree with Outfoxed.
0 Replies
 
 

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