What should be done about illegal immigration?

To correct the record, I did not miss your point. You were being sarcastic and I knew it, but took the opportunity to agree with you, because when you were joking, you were right, one of the few times by the way.

Immigration Bill Failure Proves Rasmussen's First Law of Politics

Scott Rasmussen's first law of politics is that America's politicians aren't nearly as important as they think they are. That law was clearly demonstrated earlier today when the United States Senate finally surrendered to the American people on immigration. Politicians may make things messy for a while, but over the long haul it is the American people who determine the nation's fundamental policies.

The final Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll before the vote found that just 22% of Americans supported the legislation. No amount of Presidential persuasion, Senate logrolling, and procedural tricks was able to overcome that solid bi-partisan lack of public support (although it's breathtaking to consider how close a determined leadership could come to passing such an unpopular bill).

The real mystery in all of this is why the Senators and their cheerleaders didn't anticipate the public response. Perhaps they fell in love with their own rhetoric and forgot how it might sound to others.

Near the end of the debate, supporters of the doomed legislation often stated that the status quo is unacceptable. Most Americans would agree on that point. In fact, they might even hold that feeling more strongly than the Grand Bargainers of the Senate--72% of American voters believe it's Very Important to reduce illegal immigration and enforce the borders. But controlling the border was never a focal point of the Senate debate. Instead, the Senators spent most of the time debating the fine points of various approaches to legalizing those who are here illegally. For voters, those topics were definitely a second-or-third tier aspect of the issue.

Because the Senators and the White House never showed much enthusiasm for reducing illegal immigration, only 16% believed the Senate bill would accomplish that goal. Forty-one percent (41%) thought passage of the legislation would actually lead to more illegal immigration. In other words, even though voters consider the status quo unacceptable, they had every confidence that Congress could make a bad situation worse.
It is impossible to overstate the significance of this basic fact. Outside of 46 Senators, hardly anybody thought the legislation would work. That's why it was defeated.enforces the bordervoters want their elected representatives to do the same.

HokieBird, Seems to support what I've been thinking all along about the downfall of the "new" immigration bill. Our congress has failed not only this bill, but many others like the funding for the Iraq war that continues to dumbfound the American public.

They have failed to secure the borders, and failed to enforce immigration laws already on the books. They continue to fail, and seem to spend too much time talking around the main issues of our day without accomplishing anything for the American People. I see a wholesale change in congress during the next election cycle - for both the democrats and republicans.

I think the American People are finally catching on to the do nothing congress.

On this,we agree.

Its a matter of supply and demand. Fix the demand, and the supply will subside. Punish employers with stiff fines and tax consequences, and repeat offenders with jail time. Get serious about the border. Make the government quit giving away services to non-citizens except for life threatening situations. Doing so is breaking the law.

The legislature makes laws. The executive branch is supposed to enforce them. If they won't, we need to elect those that will. If the citizens can't do that, its over.

I wasn't being sarcastic. You did miss the point

But I like ya anyways

Cycloptichorn

The American people made their concerns known, voiced their opinions, called their representatives and got this bill killed.

72% of Americans have obviously not called, written and emailed Congress to cut off funding for our troops.

The miserable Immigration Bill McCain and Kennedy came up with was unacceptable to a majority of Americans, despite what eBrown will blather on about. It's obvious to all but the hyper-partisan and no, this Bill was NOT better than the status quo. Much, much worse.

HokieBird, I'm sure the American People wants our troops out of Iraq as soon as praciticable, and congress' relented to Bush's demands to continue funding for this war for the future without any restrictions on time limits.

As for the immigration bill, I agree with you; the status quo is not better.
The biggest problem is simply that illegal immigraion is still happening because our borders are not secured. Without the control, any legislation with or without amnesty and temporary work permits is worthless.

So the American people want nothing to be done (since they also defeated the enforcement only bill in the House last year.

I am not upset the American people want nothing to be done-- they clearly rejected the harsh penalties in this bill, the touchback provisions, the border fences and the spending billions of dollars on border security.

Three cheers for the status quo-- clearly what the American people want.

Keep telling yourself those lies if it makes you able to better cope with reality. The minority who want open borders and a path to citizenship for Mexico's criminals are irrelevant.

Hokie,

You who will need to fact the facts. There are millions of Americans who are urging compassionate treatment of these immigrants. They range from civil rights groups to churches to unions.

You think that all Americans are on your side? The fact is that polls consistantly put support for a "comprehensive" solution (I don't like this term any more than you do, but it is the current term) that includes both a path to citizenship and border security at a little more than 60%.

The fact is that you haven't had any real victory here. You prevented a compromise that both sides thought was bad-- Kennedy actually took a lot of flack from pro-amnesty folks because they thought it was too conservative. But you didn't accomplish anything. You had your shot at an enfocement-only bill last year with the same results.

What this means is two more years of the same. There will be some more cities passing anti-illegal-immigrant bills... and there will be more cities becomeing sanctuary cities.

There will be raids (since there has been no resolution), and there will be millions of more immigrants since you blocked the border security in this bill. No one is going to be very happy with the consequences of nothing being done.

The most important thing is for your side to take credit for blocking this bill... because in two years when it comes up again this fact will be relevant.

But don't pretend that Americans who disagree with you don't exist.

brown - your multiple attempts to paint the majority of Americans in this country as cruel and indifferent because they want to see definitive border security and an immigration system that is fair to all who wish to come here are no longer working.

The people of this country can be pushed, but only so far. They reached their limit on this sham of a bill that was being rammed down their throats and decided to push back. They won.

I agree with you that this bill was a bad one... it is clear that Americans on both your side and mine agreed.

But to say that most Americans are on your side is illogical. Your side can obstruct progress... but you remain impotent to do any more then that.

Americans know that there will need to be a compromise, and your side is conveniently taking credit for blocking compromise.

We are willing to patiently keep working for a compassionate solution.

If we wouldn't have screwed things up in the first place, this whole mess would not have happened. The United States is constantly disrupting other countries for financial and political gain and then it, inevitably, comes back to bite them in the ass. Arm a country and have to fight them years later, destroy their crops and suffer the consequences of a starving horde.

We are the masters of placing raging bulls in china shops to protect the merchandise.

And us, the citizenry, are helpless to do anything about it. We can wail and throw our arms about, but, at this point in time all you're doing is expending energy.

I say just sit back, watch the show, and wait for the knock of the grim reaper.

Hi gus, Missed your wisdom for too long. People in other threads are looking fo ryou. You on vacation?

Nope, just tending to the crops. Busy time of the year.

On display another member of the blame America crowd. Everything is our fault, including the poverty in Mexico. The Mexican government has absolutely nothing to do with it. Such wisdom.

I am a member of the blame conservatives crowd.

You guys keep confusing the term "American" with the term conservative.

Interesting vote

NAYS

Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Nay
Bayh (D-IN), Nay
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Nay
Brown (D-OH), Nay
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
Coburn (R-OK), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Nay
Corker (R-TN), Nay
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Nay
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
McCaskill (D-MO), Nay
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Sununu (R-NH), Nay
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Nay
Warner (R-VA), Nay
Webb (D-VA), Nay

Did Harkin vote NAY because the bill was too strict? Did Bayh, Brown, Bingamen, Stabenow and Landrieu?

Byrd and Rockefeller of West Virgina both voted NAY. Does anyone think they did so because the bill was too tough on illegals?

Interesting that McConnel didn't fall in line with the Republican Establishment. Even Lott who got screwed by it did. I knew I liked Mitch

The YAYS:

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Yea

The "usual suspects" among Republican compromisers (no judgment intended) are here: McCain, Graham, Snowe et al.

All Dem presidential candidates.

Hispanic senators - Funny how none of them seem to have voted NAY because the bill was too tough.

Northeasters

I was uncertain on this one but leaned against it.

The fact that there are 8 million or so illegals in this country and that we have neither the ability nor the will to deport them all is something that must be addressed.

I'm not vehemently opposed to amnesty (and I think there are many like me on the Right who feels this way) but I've a hard time with so many politicians telling me it is not amnesty - YES IT IS. More importantly, I don't want to see us in a position of offering another 8 million illegals amnesty 10 years from now.

I'm afraid that very many Americans who might be willing to swallow amnesty for existing illegals just don't trust the government to make good on the associated promises for control of the border.

If I was convinced that all necessary effort and funding would be focused on establishing control of our borders, and that our future immigration would be based far more (although not necessarily exclusively) on what benefited the nation than on some half-baked notion that all the world's poor and oppressed have a right to come to America, I would have given it full support.

The matter will come up again. It has to, but, notwithstanding what you might want to believe Ebrown, the majority of Americans are not for wide open borders and paying taxes to subsidize immigrants on the dole. They are also not multi-cultural zealots who don't care whether or not millions of residents can speak english.

Some of these concerns are unfounded, but they are undeniably existent.

I live in Texas and have lived in NC. Both of these states are at the top of the list in terms of having illegal immigrants as residents. In neither place are these folks treated as garbage, and unless you saw them stuffed into landscaping company pick-ups or noticed they couldn't speak a lick of english you probably would not assume they are illegal (admittedly this is currently more so in Texas than NC).

The vast majority of the people who opposed this bill are not in favor of treating these people like criminals (although they clearly are criminals).

The vast majority of these people are hardworking and family oriented. They are helpful, not hurtful to our country, but there is something wrong with letting everyone and anyone enter our country illegally, and it is not nativism, xenophobia or racism to feel this way. (Which is not necessarily to say that you suggest it is).

There's plenty of compassion to be afforded, it just has to coupled with common sense.

Stop mistating my point. I do not say that most Americans want "wide open borders".

I am saying that most Americans want compromise, a path to citizenship combined with border security/workplace enforcement. The polls back me up on this.