50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 08:50 am
Source Au?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 08:52 am
McGentrix wrote:
Bill is an example of what happens when you stop taking a logical examination of an issue and develop and emotional one.
Wrong. Logically: I know the odds of legislating away poor people's desire for a better lot in life is about as likely to suceed as legislation against a nearly harmless weed that can be grown anywhere.
Emotionally; I take offense to bigots refering to blacks as jigs, Mexicans as beaners, etc, etc, etc. Too many of the arguments found on the thread are founded in prejudice to be the product of anything but bigotry. I also get very annoyed at people who cling to prejudicial bullsh!t after it's been proven prejudicial bullsh!t.

McGentrix wrote:
You lose sight of what the topic is and anyone that has a different view becomes an idiot, a bigot, or any other degrading terminology he can come up with.
I've lost sight of nothing. I've gained sight of your bigotry, and I don't like it. I don't recall accusing CI or Finn of idiocy on this thread, nor have I called either a bigot. Your request to lay your bigotry off on my MO is denied.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 08:55 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Source Au?


http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20070520-094056-4013r.htm
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 08:59 am
Foxfyre wrote:
This one is different though.
This one is different because you've steadfastly ignored the evidence proving some of your more outlandish pseudo-facts false and steadfastly insisted on mischaracterizing my positions. Most just ignore you when you stoop to those tactics, but thus far I've yet to right you completely off.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:02 am
This national sovreignty line is pure bunk.

This bill is being debated, and will be passed or rejected, by American citizens in the Congress. These Congress people were elected by a plurality of American citizens in their districts.

Do anti-immigration reform people really believe that the American citizens who disagree with them (and elect representatives who disagree with them) don't count as Americans?

How is using the democratic process to resolve an issue that Americans disagree on not an example of sovreignty?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:08 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
This one is different though.
This one is different because you've steadfastly ignored the evidence proving some of your more outlandish pseudo-facts false and steadfastly insisted on mischaracterizing my positions. Most just ignore you when you stoop to those tactics, but thus far I've yet to right you completely off.


Nobody has mischaracterized anybody as much as you have my friend. But again, I sure hope you don't try to push your misguided immigration philosophy that you advocate for the United States in Costa Rica. They'll probably ride you right out on a figurative rail.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:09 am
ebrown_p wrote:
This national sovreignty line is pure bunk.

This bill is being debated, and will be passed or rejected, by American citizens in the Congress. These Congress people were elected by a plurality of American citizens in their districts.

Do anti-immigration reform people really believe that the American citizens who disagree with them (and elect representatives who disagree with them) don't count as Americans?

How is using the democratic process to resolve an issue that Americans disagree on not an example of sovreignty?


No more than you amnesty loving citizens discount the wishes of those who want to preserve the sovereignty of the US and the rule of law.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:13 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
woiyo wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
The anti-immigration arguments here have been consistently and thoroughly shredded, repeatedly, only to be ignored. The proponents of anti-immigration have produced arguments that are reasonable (scarce few) and arguments that are founded in bigotry (whether you want to admit it or not). Pointing this out is not an act of political correctness. Talk about a cop out. Rolling Eyes

Shortly after your misguided defense of McG; he opened his mouth again and removed all doubt about his motives... yet still you persist with this nonsense. If you want to argue the subject without using bigoted BS; knock yourself out. Ebrown has been patiently draining the air out of these arguments from the get go. If you want to defend bigoted arguments; than prepare to be counted with the bigots.


Why do you keep mis-representing the problem? You keep referring to ANTI-IMMIGRATION and that is a gross mis-characterization of the problem.

The issue is if you are Pro or Anti "ILLEGAL-IMMIGRATION". The key word is ILLEGAL.
Bullsh!t. They are whining because I advocate making it LEGAL.


You advocate making ILLEGAL immigration, LEGAL?

You suggest that non-US Citizens determine when and how they can come to our country? You suggest non-citizens make laws that affect our Nation?

That makes you a traitor?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:14 am
Foxfyre wrote:
The only racists and bigots I've observed on this thread are those proposing open borders and lax immigration policy. They have consistently depicted the Mexican people as too ignorant and too weak and too incapable to survive without largesse from the magnificent American liberal . And it is those racists and bigots who are so freely playing the race card to sidetrack any meaningful discussion of what the best possible immigration policy should look like.


Amen.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:16 am
I second that. Amen
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:17 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
...
Ebrown has been patiently draining the air out of these arguments from the get go. If you want to defend bigoted arguments; than prepare to be counted with the bigots.


The only air ebrown has drained is any credibility of his or her own arguments.

Keep hurling your bigotry accusations, Bill, but you only continue to shatter any credibility you may have left.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:19 am
Why do I feel I am in a revival tent meeting?

Amen brother!
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:22 am
OKIE
The smirk has one word for all that do not agree with him.

BIGOT. I wonder who the bigot is?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:26 am
dyslexia wrote:
November 2006 (please note the year) new Mexico rescinds the asian land act which prohibited asians (specifically chinese) from property ownership in New Mexico. I'm pretty sure it was not bigotry that created this provision. (LOL)

dearest foxfyre, "illegal immigration issues" have nothing to do with bigotry? please do try to respond with "rationality"
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:26 am
au1929 wrote:
OK let's hear it from the left. The editorial writer is a bigot as are all the congress people are against giving amnesty to people who criminally entered the US. And believe that the US as a sovereign nation has the right and responsibility to determine who should enter this nation and how.

There is no doubt that some accommodation will be made for those presently in the US. However IMO they should never be accorded citizenship and the right to vote. .
I didn't hear cause to call him a bigot, but I'll grant you some idiocy in his opinion. He seems to think the United States Government will do a less competent job of separating the criminals/terrorists than the Department That Doesn't Exist is doing now. With Amnesty; on would assume that virtually every non-criminal non-terrorist will show up and be counted... leaving only the really bad guys unaccounted for. Now imagine you are the employer who can quickly and accurately identify and report via "new hire reporting" (which already exists) every immigrant you hire. How do those who haven't signed up get hired now? Even the least scrupulous of employers are unlikely to purposely hire an undocumented worker when:

a) The vast majority of ALL potential employees are now documented.
b) He would have to know that the employee in question MUST have something to hide.

I do, however, agree that the bill would be a disaster. Anyone who can't afford a $5,000 fine and a vacation to nowhere they don't need; would end up in the same position they're in now... and that's got to be a large percentage of the illegals. I could understand back taxes being charged, in cases where they haven't already been paid (which I believe to be the majority of the time), but only by way of garnishing future wages.

As for amnesty for bogus documents; he needs to get a clue:
A. It is precisely these documents that allowed them to pay taxes.
B. If that isn't forgiven; a huge segment will be forced to remain underground which would defeat the purpose of the bill in the first place. If security is the issue; any bill written has to be doable for the vast majority or there is no reason to expect them to cooperate. Hence; the only logical thing to do is give a pass to everyone who isn't a security risk; so the real security risks will stand out in their noncompliance.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:36 am
woiyo wrote:
You advocate making ILLEGAL immigration, LEGAL?
Yes.
woiyo wrote:
You suggest that non-US Citizens determine when and how they can come to our country?
No. Where did you get such an idiotic idea?
woiyo wrote:
You suggest non-citizens make laws that affect our Nation?
No. Where did you get such an idiotic idea?
woiyo wrote:
That makes you a traitor?
No. That makes me someone who recognizes the complete failure of our current policy, so I advocate amnesty for those who violated our failed policy and a new policy that's less likely to fail.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:41 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
woiyo wrote:
You advocate making ILLEGAL immigration, LEGAL?
Yes.
woiyo wrote:
You suggest that non-US Citizens determine when and how they can come to our country?
No. Where did you get such an idiotic idea?
woiyo wrote:
You suggest non-citizens make laws that affect our Nation?
No. Where did you get such an idiotic idea?
woiyo wrote:
That makes you a traitor?
No. That makes me someone who recognizes the complete failure of our current policy, so I advocate amnesty for those who violated our failed policy and a new policy that's less likely to fail.


If you want to make illegal immigration, legal, then you support:
1) Non US Citizens determining when and how they enter this country
2) You support non-citizens taking law into their own hands.
3) You support no boarder control since under you plan, anyone can come and go as they please.

That makes you a traitor to the Constitution.
0 Replies
 
HokieBird
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:42 am
If reports are true that this 'new' bill hasn't even been fully written, maybe we should wait until we've read the completed bill to form our opinions.

Still, name-calling has no place in this discussion and it's getting tiresome to see people labeled "idiot" for voicing their opinions.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:49 am
HokieBird wrote:
If reports are true that this 'new' bill hasn't even been fully written, maybe we should wait until we've read the completed bill to form our opinions.

Still, name-calling has no place in this discussion and it's getting tiresome to see people labeled "idiot" for voicing their opinions.


Honest disagreement is fair game and should be encouraged in any discussion dealing with difficult issues. But if we all cannot agree on what the policy should be, PLEASE lets all agree on HokieBird's observation.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:51 am
woiyo wrote:


If you want to make illegal immigration, legal, then you support:
1) Non US Citizens determining when and how they enter this country
2) You support non-citizens taking law into their own hands.
3) You support no boarder control since under you plan, anyone can come and go as they please.

That makes you a traitor to the Constitution.
If you really believe any of that; you are an idiot. I toyed with offering you the option of illiterate, but you've proven you can read... just can't comprehend.
0 Replies
 
 

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