50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 11:47 am
When I heard the joke "Why don't Mexicans and blacks have kids together? -Because they don't want sons who are too lazy to steal" , I thougt the Mexicans were supposed to be the lazy ones, according to the stereotype. This thread has made me think: Was it the other way around?

Please answer this very serious question.

(Hi, dis!)
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 12:00 pm
Organized urban crime in the United States was invented by Irish immigrants. They were soon facing serious competition from the European Jews and the Chinese who followed them, and both were eventually supplanted by the Italians.

Virtually every distinguishable immigrant group, identifiable by skin color, nationality, language or religion, whenever it was concentrated in sufficient numbers to be a visible competitor to other groups has had more or less the same things said about them. All of this is convincing evidence, to me, that what is observed has everything to do with the situations of the observer and his subject, and very little to do with the innate characteristics of those so observed.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 12:10 pm
fbaezer wrote:
When I heard the joke "Why don't Mexicans and blacks have kids together? -Because they don't want sons who are too lazy to steal" , I thougt the Mexicans were supposed to be the lazy ones, according to the stereotype. This thread has made me think: Was it the other way around?

Please answer this very serious question.

(Hi, dis!)
Mexicans only steal as payback for the estados unidos swiping half of mexico during the WAR which renders the question to be sociological; poor peole tend to commit more crimes than the rich or middle class and many mexicans in amerika are a missed paycheck away from the welfare cheese. It must be acknowledged however, tht embezzlement in ultimately the bigger crime, gabacho embezzlement is light-skinned and most often protestant, greater financial rewards and book/movie deals. True pachucos are from tejas (El Paso) noted by their speaking Calo reather than spanglish. On the other hand low-riders, originated in Espanola New Mexico. I call all my best friends (ok, if I actually had any friends)"beaners" 'cause they know I hate P.C. and realize that I just love their frijoles.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 12:59 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Laughing Foxy, suggesting mexican immigrants are prone to crime is bigoted, whether it be in a discussion of borders or not. I've seen no credible evidence that suggests illegal aliens are anymore prone to violent crime than anyone else. Neither have you. Pretending you have, because it will support your selfish desire to not share you country with them is bigotry.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:18 pm
Oversight, Foxy Embarrassed ... not Strawman. Please substitute Illegal Alien anywhere you see Mexican immigrant. Were that intentional; it would indeed be a straw man. It wasn't, so clinging to one tiny error is hardly a comprehensive response. Correct the error (please), and your response in its entirety is null and void.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:25 pm
dyslexia wrote:
I call all my best friends (ok, if I actually had any friends)"beaners" 'cause they know I hate P.C. and realize that I just love their frijoles.

No me digas beaner,
Mr. Puñetero
Te sacaré un susto
por racista y culero.
No me llames frijolero,
Pinche gringo puñetero.
Chingao!!
:wink:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:33 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Oversight, Foxy Embarrassed ... not Strawman. Please substitute Illegal Alien anywhere you see Mexican immigrant. Were that intentional; it would indeed be a straw man. It wasn't, so clinging to one tiny error is hardly a comprehensive response. Correct the error (please), and your response in its entirety is null and void.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:37 pm
Foxfyre,

Let me explain it to you.

We are all reacting because you made posts that seem to imply that illegal immigrants are more likely to commit violent crimes than other people living in the United States.

This is a good example of defamation.

If you didn't make defamatory comments, people wouldn't be talking about racism.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:47 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Foxfyre,

Let me explain it to you.

We are all reacting because you made posts that seem to imply that illegal immigrants are more likely to commit violent crimes than other people living in the United States.

This is a good example of defamation.

If you didn't make defamatory comments, people wouldn't be talking about racism.


Rational people would post a credible rebuttal to those arguments presented by those who have done the research eBrown. Irrational (or dishonest) people attack the messenger or try to deflect the discussion by defaming somebody else.

I am of the school that thinks it is extremely dangerous to have a climate in which serious issues cannot be addressed and discussed and the discussion won't happen if you're playing the race card instead of considering the posted facts at face value. If you have reason to believe that you are right that illegals do not disproportionately commite more crime than the legal population, put your evidence out there. I haven't been able to find such evidence and I have looked. But I have been wrong in the past and I certainly could be wrong about this. How about showing me the reality instead of playing the race card in an attempt to shut people up?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:51 pm
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:56 pm
Foxfyre, I am afraid the burden of proof in on your side... although there are credible studies that suggest that illegal immigrants commit fewer violent crimes on average.

You don't understand defamation.

Defamation is destructive because it very purpose is to promote fear and hatred. This is why it is so closely tied to racism (and why one of the most prestegious anti-racism groups is called the Anti-Defamamtion league).

When you claim there is a tie between illegal immigrants and violent crime... the consequence of this is that people gain an irrational fear of illegal immigrants. This makes a rational discussion LESS likely.

There is a good reason that many of us are saying that parts of the rhetoric from you side is racist. It is because it is uses exagerrated and false claims designed to provoke fear.

You are in complete denial on this. But, it makes no sense to post defamatory arguments and then act all surprised when people suggest you may be crossing the line into racism.

You are playing the race card card to avoid dealing with our real objections to your arguments.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 01:58 pm
Toward an Analytic Framework for Assessing and Guiding Theory, Research, and Policy, Daniel P. Mears, Sociological Perspectives, Vol. 44, No. 1 (Spring, 2001), pp. 1-19.

From the abstract:


Quote:
If media accounts are to be believed, immigration to the United States is a primary cause of increased crime rates. Review of recent anticrime policies targeting immigrants would lead one to the same conclusion. Yet most empirical research suggests precisely the opposite conclusion: many immigrant groups consistently demonstrate significantly lower crime rates than do native populations.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:05 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:11 pm
Correcting my above quoted title: "The Immigration-Crime Nexus: Toward an Analytic Framework for Assessing and Guiding Theory, Research, and Policy."

Link for access via JSTOR:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0731-1214(200121)44%3A1%3C1%3ATINTAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-P
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:14 pm
Foxy, you speed. IAs speed too. How is it any different when he does it? Americans drive drunk. IAs drive drunk too. How is it any different? Your hypocrisy, which you've yet to address is that when an American commits a violation not against people or property (like you), they ARE NOT more likely to commit crimes against people or property. Yet, when an IA commits a violation not against people or property (like border crossing), they ARE more likely to commit crimes against people or property. Stop dancing and address this hypocrisy head on.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:33 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Foxy, you speed. IAs speed too. How is it any different when he does it? Americans drive drunk. IAs drive drunk too. How is it any different? Your hypocrisy, which you've yet to address is that when an American commits a violation not against people or property (like you), they ARE NOT more likely to commit crimes against people or property. Yet, when an IA commits a violation not against people or property (like border crossing), they ARE more likely to commit crimes against people or property. Stop dancing and address this hypocrisy head on.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:38 pm
Foxy wrote:

I will agree however, that entering the country illegally is not automatically a forecast of more criminal activity.

<snip snip>

I would be tthe same steak dinner that there is proportionately a higher violent crime rate among illegal immigrants than there is in the whole population of the USA.


These two comments are interesting in themselves.

The question is WHY do you believe there is "proportionately a higher violent crime rate among illegal immigrants than there is in the whole population of the USA."

There is no credible evidence that this is the case-- and much of the evidence you have posted is wrong.

My objection to this is that it is defamation.

The purpose is to spread fear and hatred of illegal immigrants which goes far beyond one's objection to border crossing.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:40 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Foxy wrote:

I will agree however, that entering the country illegally is not automatically a forecast of more criminal activity.

<snip>

I would be tthe same steak dinner that there is proportionately a higher violent crime rate among illegal immigrants than there is in the whole population of the USA.


These two comments are interesting in themselves.

The question is WHY do you believe there is "proportionately a higher violent crime rate among illegal immigrants than there is in the whole population of the USA."

There is no credible evidence that this is the case-- and much of the evidence you have posted is wrong.

My objection to this is that it is defamation. The purpose is to spread fear and hatred of illegal immigrants which goes beyond one's objection to border crossing.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:45 pm
touchy touchy...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2007 02:46 pm
broken record is an apt observation.
0 Replies
 
 

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