What should be done about illegal immigration?

Brandon9000 wrote:

I think the point was that breaking and entering followed by being helpful is still breaking and entering, and that objecting to it doesn't amount to some sort of prejudice, racism, or wrong-thinking. Also that people who have done this have no right to demand anything. Where do the millions who welcome legal immigrants but want the illegal ones to get out fit into your scheme?

I think even ebrown would object to somebody breaking into his house, mopping his floor, cleaning his toilet, and then demand that ebrown pay him the prevailing wage protected by unemployment insurance and workers compensation and also educate his children, provide him whatever medical care he needs, and provide him with room and board for an indetermined period and holler racism if there is any objection to that.

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What should be done is Congress should mobilize the National Guard and escort these societal sucks back across the border.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
I think the point was that breaking and entering followed by being helpful is still breaking and entering, and that objecting to it doesn't amount to some sort of prejudice, racism, or wrong-thinking. Also that people who have done this have no right to demand anything. Where do the millions who welcome legal immigrants but want the illegal ones to get out fit into your scheme?

I think even ebrown would object to somebody breaking into his house, mopping his floor, cleaning his toilet, and then demand that ebrown pay him the prevailing wage protected by unemployment insurance and workers compensation and also educate his children, provide him whatever medical care he needs, and provide him with room and board for an indetermined period and holler racism if there is any objection to that.

Yes, however, he would not object if somebody broke into yours. In fact he would no doubt welcome it.

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What is needed is a big broom that would gather up all the illegals and sweep them back over the border.

Brown chew on that for a while Laughing

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Foxfyre wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
I think the point was that breaking and entering followed by being helpful is still breaking and entering, and that objecting to it doesn't amount to some sort of prejudice, racism, or wrong-thinking. Also that people who have done this have no right to demand anything. Where do the millions who welcome legal immigrants but want the illegal ones to get out fit into your scheme?

I think even ebrown would object to somebody breaking into his house, mopping his floor, cleaning his toilet, and then demand that ebrown pay him the prevailing wage protected by unemployment insurance and workers compensation and also educate his children, provide him whatever medical care he needs, and provide him with room and board for an indetermined period and holler racism if there is any objection to that.

You are quite wrong Foxy. Either you, CJ and Au are welcome to come clean my toilets. You will understand if I don't open the door for you but you can use the basement window (just be warned that you might die).

You see, the great thing is that (thanks to the conservative members of my house) I DONT have to pay you prevailing wages... and as I will keep reminding you that your kind don't belong I can stiff you on insurance etc.

Best of all, any time ANYTHING goes wrong... I get to blame you for it. If the kids fight (its FOXY who is is ILLEGAL). If I can't balance the budget (its the ILLEGALS).

Actually Foxy, ... your reply is quite perplexing. It seems like you are arguing that illegal workers cost more than legal workers. Of course, in that case, a path toward legalization for workers would make great economoc sense.

Somehow I doubt that was what you intended.

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There was a roundup of illegals in northern California recently, about 500, and now the ACLU is saying that the roundup was illegal.

The issue of illegals has many spikes.

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Well that works for me. Let's send all the illegals to ebrown's house and let him take care of them. Just make sure to tell them to knock on the front door first to legitimatize themselves.

I don't care in the least if ebrown wishes to pay the cost of illegals to be here. I have a huge problem with him expecting me to pay the cost of illegals to be here.

And as for those illegals who actually are contributing something and that we need to be here--and there are indeed quite a few of those--they will have absolutely no trouble getting a temporary work permit to come back legally once we have a sensible immigration policy in place. And I will have no problem with them then immediately getting into the back of the line to become American citizens if that is what they want.

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Quote:

absolutely no trouble getting a temporary work permit to come back legally

>snort<

What color is the sky, in your fantasy world?

Cycloptichorn

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cicerone imposter wrote:

There was a roundup of illegals in northern California recently, about 500, and now the ACLU is saying that the roundup was illegal.

The issue of illegals has many spikes.

Too bad they're not Americans. See ya suckers.

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cjhsa wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
There was a roundup of illegals in northern California recently, about 500, and now the ACLU is saying that the roundup was illegal.

The issue of illegals has many spikes.

Too bad they're not Americans. See ya suckers.

Problem is CJ. The ACLU are Americans...

But then we all know that you are anti-American.

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A racist one too - right?

Eat me.

Illegals are not "americans" any more than you are even remotely right.

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Don't get all bent out of shape there CJ. I never said illegals were Americans.

What I said is that Americans have the right to stand up for the rights of immigrants (legal or illegal).

Americans also have the right to give illegals a path to citizenship, and this is exactly what millions of Americans want. Our case will now be taken up in Congress where our elected officials will try to pass a bill to this effect.

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haven't looked in here for a while - but it seems , it's not changing much anyhow .

i spent six weeks in texas in the winter of 1979 - four weeks in austin attending a computer course and travelling around with mrs h for another two weeks .
all in all , just a wonderful experience ! the weather was mild - for us canadians anyway , even though it was the winter when the mississippi river froze over and coal barges couldn't reach the power staions .
the people were friendly and helpful - just wonderful .

during our travels we also stopped over for two days in del rio . we wanted to see mexico but had been told that our car insurance would not cover us in mexico : leave the car on the u.s. side .
so left the car at the boder and hopped on the 25 cent "chicken bus" to take us into mexico . many mexican women seemed to like the idea to take a live chicken or two across :wink: .
we did a bit of shopping for local arts and crafts and walked back across the bridge in the evening with many americans going back too .
halfway across we noticed a large group of bedraggled looking men coming towards us from the u.s. side . we were a little apprehensive but were re-assured by the americans walking with us , that these were "wetbacks" being sent back to mexico .
but not to worry , most of them would come back to the u.s. across the rio grande river the next day or so and the farmers would be waiting for them to take them to their farms .
we must have looked a little puzzled because the locals explained to us that it was all just a game and that everyone had to play the assigned role - there was absolutely nothing to worry about .
during the next few days we drove west - great bend national park , alpine ... and i'm sure we chatted with many of the "wetbacks" who were taking a break from working on the fields - all cheerful and friendly -
as we had been told : " it was all just a game and that everyone had to play the assigned role " .

it seems that not much has changed in those 28 years - except we now have the internet and that gives more people the chance to get steamed publicly .
hbg

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ebrown_p wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
There was a roundup of illegals in northern California recently, about 500, and now the ACLU is saying that the roundup was illegal.

The issue of illegals has many spikes.

Too bad they're not Americans. See ya suckers.

Problem is CJ. The ACLU are Americans...

But then we all know that you are anti-American.

How could a round up of illegal alien workers be illegal itself? Sounds like the ACLU is grasping for straws.

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Not at all. There are Constitutional rules for law enforcement that are a key to our society.

The police can't break the rules... even if they are going after criminals.

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ebrown-p wrote :

Quote:

The police can't break the rules... even if they are going after criminals.

i always thought there were two kinds of laws :
one law for "the goood ones" - me included ! ,

and another law for all the others :wink: .
hbg

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ebrown_p wrote:

My point is that Au's breaking and entering analogy is a simplistic political stunt-- and nothing else.

I'd say it's a decent analogy and you just don't want to answer it. Why does such an analogy have no validity? Someone breaks into your house, cleans it, and then demands the right to stay and these other things. You keep trying to change the subject from this simple, linear train of argument.

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ebrown_p wrote:

My point is that Au's breaking and entering analogy is a simplistic political stunt-- and nothing else.

As far as where the millions who "welcome legal immigrants but want the illegal ones to get out" fit? This is a fair question.

The answer, of course, is that this a political disagreement between these Americans who want to kick all illegals out of the country, and Americans like me who favor diversity and compassion.

Fortunately we have a Democracy which is perfectly able to resolve this disagreement. The Congress will be debating bills, probably starting next week-- and we will be hearing from Americans on both sides of the issue.

After a period of debate (and probably some screaming at each other) there will be votes on bills (taken by representatives who were elected by Americans).

My hope is that the McCain Kennedy compromise will pass. And there is reason for optimism.

The other side, in the current political reality, doesn't have much power since they lost a lot of representation in Congress in the midterms after failing to make progress in the last Congress. They now have the choice to either accept a moderate compromise (i.e. the McCain Kennedy bill) or to try to Stall and Whine for two more years.

What should be obvious is that it is the opinions of Americans that matter in this debate.

It was the opinions of Americans that kept the enforcement-only bills in the last Congress from passing. And, if a compassionate immigration bill passes that allows immigrants to come out of the shadows, it will be because of the millions of Americans who want this outcome.

I answered this in the post you quoted from (which I repost here for reference).

There are millions of Americans who want people here now here illegally to stay-- some for business reasons, and some for reasons of compassion.

When the owners of the house decide that it is in their imterest to let Au stay... well in Au's twisted analogy this makes no sense.

It will be Congress that decides.

The majority of Americans say (when asked in polls) that there should be a path to citizenship for those here illegally now. These same Americans elected a Democratic congress that will very likely pass such a law.

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That "democratic" congress is going to get a ride to Mexico City on a rail.

Pelosi's nightmare is only just beginning.

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I don't want million and millions of people who ignored my country's immigration laws to be forgiven, except for maybe a few hardship cases. Rewarding bad behavior encourages more future bad behavior. Amnesty would hardly cause prospective future illegal immigrants to take our immigration laws seriously. I say that if you broke the law, you should pay a fitting price. In this case, the fitting price is to be asked to leave.

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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