SUPPORT THE TROOPS - What Does That Mean To You ??

Anon-Voter wrote:

Eryemil wrote:
I fear for everyone directly involved in the war. both the American troops and the Iraqis equally. I always try to make myself heard regarding this issue because people are dying and I'll say this again and again 'till I've lost my voice if it'll save one life.

The US troops committed murder, there's blood on all of their hands because they chose to kill and that's something that they'll have to live with. (I feel the same about the Iraqis, but since this thread is not about them) This won't stop me from encouraging the efforts to buy them armor however, life is precious and everyone should have at least one chance to learn from their mistakes.

For me it is a matter of supporting them as people but not the things they do, because that would make me just as guilty.

It's very easy to judge people, so much easier than being empathic towards them. It is hard for me not to judge military personnel because the choose to join, they go to war knowing they'll kill others. But I think about myself, how in the past I've been an advocate for the death penalty and it is humbling. The thirst for blood is a lot more human than compassion, it is an obstacle we must all deal with at one point or another.

So to me, I suppose, supporting the troops means helping them stay alive and always speaking my mind in the chance that anyone's willing to listen.

The best way to keep them alive and whole is to bring them home ... now! They are on a fools errand, and we shouldn't be there. We never should have been there ... It's a horrible lie from start to end!!

Anon

I'm being realistic. The war will end when when the powers that be decide it should end.

Besides, those soldiers wouldn't be there if they hadn't chosen to, I doubt anyone forced them.

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I don't quite see our soldiers in the same light at Anon. The reason is simple to me; soldiers are taught to follow orders; no if's, and's or but's. Wars are always the result of politics; there's no getting away from that fact.

If soldiers were allowed to disregard orders, any military organization would not work.

Many that volunteered to fight in Iraq and/or Afghanistan did so thinking it was the patriotic thing to do; to protect our country. We can disagree on this point, but I can't fault the young man or woman for wanting to serve our country - for whatever reason.

I am only angry at this administration for their incompetence, and for the generals that failed their responsibility to our soldiers to ensure that they had the necessary equipment to fight this war. All the current ranks of generals are all "yes" men to this administration. They fear more for their own careers than they do for the foot soldiers fighting in the front lines. They are all scums.

I support our troops.

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"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." -Oscar Wilde

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ehBeth wrote:

Anon-Voter wrote:
ehBeth,

OK, I'll admit to ignorance, who/what is seed???

Anon

Anon, Seed is a long-term poster, in the military, currently found here ... click

He posted again today, here

He's quite a wonderful young man. A hero to more than a few of us here, because he's not a bystander. He gets involved. He helps people.

I wish there was something real we could do to make him feel better.

ehBeth,

I'm sorry, I had missed this and I was actually looking for it. I'm sure Seed is a wonderful young man, and a pride for his mother.

IF I KNEW in 1969 what I know now about this nation, I would have never allowed myself to be drafted. I can't tell you what I would do because I don't have to think about it or make that decision now! I would definitely have left the country before I let myself be made part of that stupendous lie that was VietNam. I don't know that I would have had the courage to stay here and fight it and go to jail ... probably not! I can guarantee you that I would not have been part of it though!!

It boggles my mind that anyone would let themselves be part of this. That's why I hate the current recruiting techniques that entail lying and promising things that are nothing but bullshit to just get a young naive person to sign up. These young are also great targets because they can be filled with, and misled with these lies and patriotism bullshit that recruiters feed them. They find out ... too late!! I wonder if Seed would sign up again if he knew what the deal is!!

I'm sorry guys, so I'm a ****! I just refuse to let these young people be used against me as a lever to get my support for a war that I think is criminal, insane, and immoral! I'm against it, I'm against every part of it, I don't support any part of it ... not any of it!!!!!

Anon

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echi wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
For anyone to say that soldiers CHOOSE to kill shows a serious lack of knowledge about the military,and how it works.
Of course soldiers choose to kill... The guns do not fire themselves.

Echi,

Yes, they do CHOOSE to kill, and they get PAID to do it. The problem with a standing Army is that the ones who control it can't resist the temptation to use it!!

Have gun, Will travel !!

Anon

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Eryemil wrote:

I'm being realistic. The war will end when when the powers that be decide it should end.

Besides, those soldiers wouldn't be there if they hadn't chosen to, I doubt anyone forced them.

Part of getting the war to end is to not let the lies continue on without being challenged. It is astounding the incredible ignorance of our American Military as to why they think they are in Iraq!!! The reason the rightwingers hate us liberals is because the troops are getting word as to just how bad they've really been lied to!!

Anon

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Anon-Voter wrote:

Eryemil wrote:
I'm being realistic. The war will end when when the powers that be decide it should end.

Besides, those soldiers wouldn't be there if they hadn't chosen to, I doubt anyone forced them.

Part of getting the war to end is to not let the lies continue on without being challenged. It is astounding the incredible ignorance of our American Military as to why they think they are in Iraq!!! The reason the rightwingers hate us liberals is because the troops are getting word as to just how bad they've really been lied to!!

Anon

Truth matters little. Some men are blind, some men hold all the power.

The majority's always right, even when it is wrong and if this majority lets itself be lead like sheep, then there's little hope.

It is easier to turn lead to gold than change the heart of men, methinks.

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Eryemil wrote:

Were I a little older I'd be in Iraq as fast as I could join a civilian organization. Sadly I'm still too young but there is much to be done all over the world and very few people willing to dirty their hands.

It may seem hopeless, places like Africa, but it has to be done. It is only difficult if people refuse to contribute.

I admire anyone who's willing to sacrifice their personal sensitivities and comforts for the sake of others.

Go Seed! (Though I would never join the military in order to help others, it is like asking the murderer of a child to counsel the grieving mother)

I'm having trouble picturing you so young as your posts seem so adult!!

Anon

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I know, I read his (Eryemil) posts and I'm in awe :-)

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cicerone imposter wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
For anyone to say that soldiers CHOOSE to kill shows a serious lack of knowledge about the military,and how it works.

Let's see if mm can tell us about any military that never chose to kill?

1. To enlist into the armed services by its very definition means the "necessity" to kill, unless you don't mind getting shot at.

2. The reason the military trains soldiers to shoot guns and rifles is to kill the "enemy."

3. Everybody that joins the marines learns how to kill.

There are hundreds of jobs in the military that do not require someone to use a weapon,or to kill.
To name a few...
Doctors
Nurses
Chaplains
Dentists
Dental techs
Weatherman
corpsman
cooks
clerks
enginemen on a ship
JAG

The list goes on,but for you to claim that " To enlist into the armed services by its very definition means the "necessity" to kill, unless you don't mind getting shot at" is just plain wrong.

Everybody that joins the marines learns to shoot,but once you are out of basic,many jobs never touch a rifle again,except to keep their qualification.

I was never required to fire a rifle,and I spent most of my career with the marines.
I was not trained to kill,I was trained to save lives.

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mysteryman wrote:

I was never required to fire a rifle,and I spent most of my career with the marines. I was not trained to kill,I was trained to save lives.

You were trained to keep these people alive so they could go and kill others. Do you see the irony?

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Eryemil wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
I was never required to fire a rifle,and I spent most of my career with the marines. I was not trained to kill,I was trained to save lives.

You were trained to keep these people alive so they could go and kill others. Do you see the irony?

No,I was trained to save lives.
Those lives could have been noncombatants,innocent people,enemy wounded,American wounded,babies,the elderly,etc.
It made no difference who it was,if they were wounded,it was my job to save them.

Are you actually suggesting that the wounded be allowed to die?

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the sole function of the military is winning wars. winning wars always means killing people.

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mysteryman wrote:

Eryemil wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
I was never required to fire a rifle,and I spent most of my career with the marines. I was not trained to kill,I was trained to save lives.

You were trained to keep these people alive so they could go and kill others. Do you see the irony?

No,I was trained to save lives.
Those lives could have been noncombatants,innocent people,enemy wounded,American wounded,babies,the elderly,etc.
It made no difference who it was,if they were wounded,it was my job to save them.

Are you actually suggesting that the wounded be allowed to die?

Do not put words in my mouth, I beg you.

It seems very ironic to me that you can support the military at all. I guess the only question left to ask is why?

Yet more irony; you were trained to save people that wouldn't be hurt had you not been there in the first place.

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I have been watching this conversation and have been doing my best to keep out of it.

You can support the troops without supporting the war. What is important is that these men and women are willing to put their lives on the line for their country and do their sworn duty. Many don't agree with the war but still they do their duty.

FACT: They are there. FACT: They need our support. FACT: Their families need our support.

I hate war. I hate that anyone is killed for any reason. But, this is, unfortunately, a part of life. So, what we do is learn to cope the best we can.

I am proud of each and every person that has ever served in the military. I owe them my freedom. I will do whatever I can do to help the troops get through this war.

But I beg you all, please, do not hold this war against the troops. They were sent there. They didn't ask to go. No one wants war. Our troops need encouraging words, not fighting in our own country.

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war, what is it good for: absolutely nothing.

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I couldn't agree with you more, dys. Crying or Very sad

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Quote:

Yet more irony; you were trained to save people that wouldn't be hurt had you not been there in the first place.

Not true.
I was in several places that were hit by natural disasters,putting my skills to use.
We picked up Cuban and Haitian refugees,where I put my skills to use.

My military training has been useful when I have come acroos traffic accidents where people have been hurt.

The medics in WW2 were also there to save lives.Are you saying they shouldnt have been there?

You need to experience life a little bit before you criticize something you know nothing about.
By your own admission you are to young to serve,yet you are attacking and denigrating those of us who did choose to serve.
How can someone as young as you say you are be so full of hate for the military and this countries vets?

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They chose to enlist, that's all there is to it. I will not support them. I wish them well, I wish them safe but supporting what they're doing would make me as guilty for their crimes.

I would rather be shot where I stand than become anyone's pawn by spreading this disease we call war. (And you can hold me to these words!)

War and genocide are only a parts of life because people like you Momma Angel insist on it being that way. Like I've said countless of times, humans are violent creatures by nature, yet when have we ever abided by nature? It is shameful the way people accept these situations.

The old 'they're just doing their duty' and 'they were just following orders' lines are getting a bit old. I am not saying that every person over there is killing people left and right but enlisting in the military knowing you might be required to kill another person is as close to premeditated murder as one can go. The ones that haven't killed anyone are just as guilty because under different circumstances they'd kill too.

Many of them are naive kids, who'll come out of this war 10 years older and with wisdom beyond their years, that is the ONLY good thing that will ever come of this.

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Well,
I can se that your ignorance of and hatred for the military will not allow you to see the truth.

I can only hope that this country never has to rely on people like you to defend it,because its obvious you wouldnt do so.

I wish you well,and I hope you enjoy your ignorance.
But remember this,its because there are people willing to defend this country that you can be ignorant.

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SUPPORT THE TROOPS - What Does That Mean To You ??

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