SUPPORT THE TROOPS - What Does That Mean To You ??

ossobuco wrote:

I'll look at these two subjects in different ways. I support the people from the US who are over there. I don't support our/their being there in the first place. But given they are there, I wish them home safe. I also support, not the enemy exactly, but the people of Iraq, such as they are, in all their ways. It is, after all, their country.

So, in my case, you could say support the troops meets with non support for any more aggression on our part.

I deeply support our soldiers.. I don't support our command structure at this moment in time, to put it mildly.

ossobuco wrote:

Well, just to riff, I'd like it if our soldiers had well clad vehicles and bodies.. but more if they plain old talked with the people they are belligerantly guarding. Yes, I know the guarding is warranted.

I only wish that some energy went to communication instead of war and war and war. Such an incredible waste.

ossobuco wrote:

Well, as I've heard it, the troops have been short supplied. I don't care about the implications of my concern, I'd like the combatants of the US to be safe and well.

I'd like their command structure to desist, but at this point I can see that would be hard to finesse. I'd like all the people of Iraq to be safe and well too and see that as being difficult, given the mess.

ossobuco wrote:

My view of our role in the mess is largely negative.

My Dearest Osso,

I'm reading these quotes, and I think they reflect how a lot of people feel. If you go through how your mind is tracking, you seem to feel conflicted with the whole mess, which is where many of us are.

We hate the war!

We want out, but have no idea how the hell to do it !!

We don't support what the troops are doing, but we support the troops inasmuch as we don't want them coming back in body bags, or worse, minus one or more parts which they have to live rest of their lives adjusting to. It's a bloody mess ... there is no good solution ... no matter what we do, it's probably wrong.

What a horrible MESS!!

The SF Chronicle is doing a superb set of articles about our wounded who are coming back with their bodies destroyed and their lives permanently destroyed because of the damages done.

http://www.sfgate.com/warwithoutend/

Anon

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Anon, anyone who doesn't hate war is insane.

Now, with all respect, partner, I just gotta take you to task for playing the "I'm a vet so I'm uniquely qualified to voice an opion" and the "chickenhawks" cards. You're not the only vet, not even the only combat vet, nor even the only combat-connected disabled vet in these discussions, and yours is not the only opinion which has merit derived thereby.

Of course you're entitled to have and express any opinion you find suitable - provided you do so here, in any event, in locally acceptable manner - however, others in these discussions with credentials comparable to those professed by you differ with your opinion.

Just thought I'd point that out.

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timberlandko wrote:

Anon, anyone who doesn't hate war is insane.

Now, with all respect, partner, I just gotta take you to task for playing the "I'm a vet so I'm uniquely qualified to voice an opion" and the "chickenhawks" cards. You're not the only vet, not even the only combat vet, nor even the only combat-connected disabled vet in these discussions, and yours is not the only opinion which has merit derived thereby.

Of course you're entitled to have and express any opinion you find suitable - provided you do so here, in any event, in locally acceptable manner - however, others in these discussions with credentials comparable to those professed by you differ with your opinion.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Remember a while back when I did the Timberlandko "love in"?? Remember when I said I respect you from the top of your head to the tips of your toes?? Well, maybe I didn't get that mushy, BUT YOU DO REMEMBER me telling you that I truly respect you and think you're a gentleman?? I even like you a lot!! Yea, you remember!! Well, I also think your politics stink ... I think your evaulation of the economy is that of the Titanic ... just before it hit the iceberg, I think you're bloody insane ... but YOU have EARNED the right to speak up in any manner you wish and stand wherever you want!!

I still respect you, and my hat's off to you, even if you ARE nuts!!! The last thing you did was hide under your mommies skirt and scream coward, and anti-american at others!!!

You are my buddy, crazy or not!! Woiyo is in that same category ... he's a crazy little bugger, but I'll step in front of a bullet for him!!

Anon

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What's supporting the troops mean to me?

Today, among other things, it means responding to Seed, who's not having a good time of it.

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ehBeth,

OK, I'll admit to ignorance, who/what is seed???

Anon

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I fear for everyone directly involved in the war. both the American troops and the Iraqis equally. I always try to make myself heard regarding this issue because people are dying and I'll say this again and again 'till I've lost my voice if it'll save one life.

The US troops committed murder, there's blood on all of their hands because they chose to kill and that's something that they'll have to live with. (I feel the same about the Iraqis, but since this thread is not about them) This won't stop me from encouraging the efforts to buy them armor however, life is precious and everyone should have at least one chance to learn from their mistakes.

For me it is a matter of supporting them as people but not the things they do, because that would make me just as guilty.

It's very easy to judge people, so much easier than being empathic towards them. It is hard for me not to judge military personnel because the choose to join, they go to war knowing they'll kill others. But I think about myself, how in the past I've been an advocate for the death penalty and it is humbling. The thirst for blood is a lot more human than compassion, it is an obstacle we must all deal with at one point or another.

So to me, I suppose, supporting the troops means helping them stay alive and always speaking my mind in the chance that anyone's willing to listen.

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I have stayed out of this discussion,because of my unique vantage of actually having served in Iraq,but I can no longer remain silent.

This post from Eryemil...

Quote:

The US troops committed murder, there's blood on all of their hands because they chose to kill and that's something that they'll have to live with.

is just to much.

Let me say first of all that I am proud of my military career,proud of having been in both Iraq and Afghanistan,and would go back right now if I could.
Before anyone says anything stupid about me going back,I am retired,due to wounds received in Iraq.

Now,soldiers do NOT choose to kill.
Most of them would prefer to never have to fire a shot i combat,or shoot at another living person.
The difference is that we recognize that there are times when it must be done.
Yes,sometimes innocent people get wounded or killed,but soldiers do not do that intentionally.
EVERY soldier I knew in Iraq would risk their own lives to avoid hitting innocent people.

For anyone to say that soldiers CHOOSE to kill shows a serious lack of knowledge about the military,and how it works.

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When someone joins the military, they know that there's a chance that they'll go to war and that people might die by their hand. Anyone who joins knowing this must bear the burden of all the dead, even if they didn't kill them.

There's no such thing as virtuous murder. Are you saying that this behavior is acceptable among humans? Animals do not incriminate some and praise others for killing. Either all killing is murder or it is all acceptable. Why are some varieties of cold-blooded, premeditated killings agreeable and others deplorable?

We deem some not worthy of life or simple accept their deaths as collateral damage. Doesn't the word casualties say something?

Saying that soldiers don't have a choice is a pitiful excuse. The instant someone joins the military they accept all its wrongs as necessary or ephemeral and that is a sad thing.

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Anon-Voter wrote:

ehBeth,

OK, I'll admit to ignorance, who/what is seed???

Anon

Anon, Seed is a long-term poster, in the military, currently found here ... click

He posted again today, here

He's quite a wonderful young man. A hero to more than a few of us here, because he's not a bystander. He gets involved. He helps people.

I wish there was something real we could do to make him feel better.

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mysteryman wrote:

For anyone to say that soldiers CHOOSE to kill shows a serious lack of knowledge about the military,and how it works.

Of course soldiers choose to kill... The guns do not fire themselves.

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Ticomaya wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
The only way to support the troops in Iraq is to oppose the war in Iraq.

Of course you also want the US to lose the war in Iraq and think you're a patriot for doing so.

This war was lost before it was started. It is lost now! That can't be changed. Theree was never a direction or a premises that this war could be won about.

Joe and I ARE patriots ... You ... well ... we ALL know what you are!!

Anon

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ehBeth wrote:

Anon-Voter wrote:
ehBeth,

OK, I'll admit to ignorance, who/what is seed???

Anon

Anon, Seed is a long-term poster, in the military, currently found here ... click

He posted again today, here

He's quite a wonderful young man. A hero to more than a few of us here, because he's not a bystander. He gets involved. He helps people.

I wish there was something real we could do to make him feel better.

Were I a little older I'd be in Iraq as fast as I could join a civilian organization. Sadly I'm still too young but there is much to be done all over the world and very few people willing to dirty their hands.

It may seem hopeless, places like Africa, but it has to be done. It is only difficult if people refuse to contribute.

I admire anyone who's willing to sacrifice their personal sensitivities and comforts for the sake of others.

Go Seed! (Though I would never join the military in order to help others, it is like asking the murderer of a child to counsel the grieving mother)

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mysteryman wrote:
For anyone to say that soldiers CHOOSE to kill shows a serious lack of knowledge about the military,and how it works.

Let's see if mm can tell us about any military that never chose to kill?

1. To enlist into the armed services by its very definition means the "necessity" to kill, unless you don't mind getting shot at.

2. The reason the military trains soldiers to shoot guns and rifles is to kill the "enemy."

3. Everybody that joins the marines learns how to kill.

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echi wrote:

"Support the Troops, not the War." Impossible. I support neither.

Neither do I. I frankly think that phrase is nothing more than WORDS ... WORDS that were coined into a sound byte by the chickenhawks to make people feel guilty in order to gather support for their war.

I DON'T SUPPORT THE WAR

and

I DON'T SUPPORT THE TROOPS THAT ARE PROSECUTING THE WAR

As far as I am concerned, they are following illegal orders in an illegal war. If they had a moral code whatsoever, they would refuse to be part of it!! If ALL the troops refused to prosecute this war for this venal Administration, just who would be there to courtmartial them.

One thing I like about some of the different political structures than ours is that there can be a vote of no confidence. Our two party system makes that impossible!!

This war is wrong, and this war is evil ... I don't intend to support any part of it, or anyone involved in it!!

THERE, THAT SHOULD GIVE THE CHICKENHAWK BRIGADE HERE IN A2K PLENTY OF AMMUNITION !!!!

Anon

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ehBeth wrote:

What's supporting the troops mean to me?

Today, among other things, it means responding to Seed, who's not having a good time of it.

I'm still sitting here in ignorance of who SEED is???

Anonm

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I posted more about Seed on the previous page, Anon.

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Anon
Seed is a known and loved A2K member who is serving in Iraq right now.

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Eryemil wrote:

I fear for everyone directly involved in the war. both the American troops and the Iraqis equally. I always try to make myself heard regarding this issue because people are dying and I'll say this again and again 'till I've lost my voice if it'll save one life.

The US troops committed murder, there's blood on all of their hands because they chose to kill and that's something that they'll have to live with. (I feel the same about the Iraqis, but since this thread is not about them) This won't stop me from encouraging the efforts to buy them armor however, life is precious and everyone should have at least one chance to learn from their mistakes.

For me it is a matter of supporting them as people but not the things they do, because that would make me just as guilty.

It's very easy to judge people, so much easier than being empathic towards them. It is hard for me not to judge military personnel because the choose to join, they go to war knowing they'll kill others. But I think about myself, how in the past I've been an advocate for the death penalty and it is humbling. The thirst for blood is a lot more human than compassion, it is an obstacle we must all deal with at one point or another.

So to me, I suppose, supporting the troops means helping them stay alive and always speaking my mind in the chance that anyone's willing to listen.

The best way to keep them alive and whole is to bring them home ... now! They are on a fools errand, and we shouldn't be there. We never should have been there ... It's a horrible lie from start to end!!

Anon

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SUPPORT THE TROOPS - What Does That Mean To You ??

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