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Some Common, Bad Arguments for the Recent U.S. Policy Towar

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 09:01 am
Quote:

Alright, I will, but it was a "coulda been" regarding doomsday weapons in the hands of a madman, which he coulda used to re-invade Kuwait and other neighbors, and kill millions, including residents of American cities. Seems to me checking out a significant probability of a monumental disaster, possibly involving millions of deaths and the subjugation of millions more in the Middle East to Saddam Hussein was a valid reason to go to war. Seems to me that this is the purpose of the military.


This sounds reasonable enough, but it is all a lie. Saddam didn't have these weapons. There was never any credible evidence that he had nuclear weapons, and bio and chem weapons, while terrible, probably wouldn't kill millions of people. Saddam had zero chance of striking here in America, so that's a false canard.

Any ruler or madman 'could have' weapons capable of the destruction that you cause. It isn't license to go around invading the world and causing destruction ourselves.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 09:31 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Note to Drew Dad: Not only do I know the steps, but I've answered this precise question regarding the purpose of risking American soldiers, numerous times on this board.

You've rationalized your position ("I'm afraid of the boogieman; he could have turned invisible when you looked in the closet, so you can't prove he wasn't there"). No one else finds it persuasive, however.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 09:35 am
You mean amongst the people that hate the President, right?
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 09:42 am
McGentrix wrote:
You mean amongst the people that hate the President, right?
Well, we already know the opinion of those slavishly devoted to him...
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 09:57 am
McGentrix wrote:
You mean amongst the people that hate the President, right?


You are projecting again. Embarrassed Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:36 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

Alright, I will, but it was a "coulda been" regarding doomsday weapons in the hands of a madman, which he coulda used to re-invade Kuwait and other neighbors, and kill millions, including residents of American cities. Seems to me checking out a significant probability of a monumental disaster, possibly involving millions of deaths and the subjugation of millions more in the Middle East to Saddam Hussein was a valid reason to go to war. Seems to me that this is the purpose of the military.


This sounds reasonable enough, but it is all a lie. Saddam didn't have these weapons. There was never any credible evidence that he had nuclear weapons, and bio and chem weapons, while terrible, probably wouldn't kill millions of people. Saddam had zero chance of striking here in America, so that's a false canard.

Any ruler or madman 'could have' weapons capable of the destruction that you cause. It isn't license to go around invading the world and causing destruction ourselves.

Cycloptichorn

If he didn't have both some WMD and research facililities to develop certain others, then why did he promise by treaty to destroy them? Hussein had much more than zero chance of striking America. All he would have needed to do was smuggle the weapons into the US in pieces and reassemble them here. One nuclear or bioweapon probably couldn't kill millions of people, but several could. We are not talking about some guy who might in theory have WMD of which there was no evidence. We are talking about Saddam Hussein, who had had WMD and research facilities to develop more, and had signed a treaty promising to destroy them. You don't invade the kingdom of an evil madman because he might simply in theory have doomsday weapons, but you ought to if he has had them and facilities to improve them, and has failed to adhere to a treaty to destroy them.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:36 am
McGentrix wrote:
You mean amongst the people that hate the President, right?

Are you saying that you do find Brandon's position convincing?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:40 am
DrewDad wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Note to Drew Dad: Not only do I know the steps, but I've answered this precise question regarding the purpose of risking American soldiers, numerous times on this board.

You've rationalized your position ("I'm afraid of the boogieman; he could have turned invisible when you looked in the closet, so you can't prove he wasn't there"). No one else finds it persuasive, however.

Actually, lots of people do, including the president and several A2K posters. You are distorting my actual argument, which is that when an evil dictator has WMD, and has promised to destroy them, and has for years misled and deceived inspectors, there is a real danger. There is a very real danger today of nukes and bioweapons being acquired by people like Hussein. It is not, in fact, true, that all grave dangers are imaginary, although it would be comforting to believe that.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:44 am
Quote:

If he didn't have both some WMD and research facililities to develop certain others, then why did he promise by treaty to destroy them? Hussein had much more than zero chance of striking America. All he would have needed to do was smuggle the weapons into the US in pieces and reassemble them here. One nuclear or bioweapon probably couldn't kill millions of people, but several could. We are not talking about some guy who might in theory have WMD of which there was no evidence. We are talking about Saddam Hussein, who had had WMD and research facilities to develop more, and had signed a treaty promising to destroy them. You don't invade the kingdom of an evil madman because he might simply in theory have doomsday weapons, but you ought to if he has had them and facilities to improve them, and has failed to adhere to a treaty to destroy them.


You are making a Black Swan argument. What evidence do you have that Saddam didn't destroy his WMD?

At the time of the invasion, you may recall that there were still UN inspectors looking for WMD in the country. They didn't find any. Why did we rush to invade again? Why didn't we wait for them to do a more thorough job?

Quote:
All he would have needed to do was smuggle the weapons into the US in pieces and reassemble them here.


Anyone, apparently, can do this at any time. Russia could have done this. Iran could do it. Al Qaeda could do it. Any of our enemies can do this. Does this mean we should attack everyone? Of course not. Lame.

And what have we done to keep this from happening? Our border security is non-existent. This really provides the lie when it comes to the 'War on Terror.'

And, for the record, Saddam didn't have the ability to attack his closest neighbors with WMD, let alone America. He A) didn't have the WMD to attack with in the first place, and B) didn't have a delivery vehicle. All the Drone/UAV talk was of course lies.

The problem is that your argument is built upon suppositions, 'maybes' and lies. Saddam wasn't a threat to anyone. Bush made it abundantly clear that he was going to invade no matter what; for political reasons which had nothing to do with WMD, and the worst part is, you know it!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:45 am
DrewDad wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
You mean amongst the people that hate the President, right?

Are you saying that you do find Brandon's position convincing?


I find Brandon's posts to be far more convincing than the general blabbering of 90% of the posts on A2K regarding Bush. At least he puts forth an effort and stays on topic without the chidish games and name calling.

I already know Saddam had WMD's prior to the invasion, of that I need no further convincing. That he would have used them against the US, I don't think he would have, against his neighbors or those countrymen opposed to his reign, he probably would have. I am also already convinced that Saddam will no longer ever be a threat, nor will doubt ever rise again if he has access or possesses WMD's.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:48 am
Quote:
I already know Saddam had WMD's prior to the invasion, of that I need no further convincing.


You left out the 'didn't.' Because, yaknow, we didn't find any. Because he apparently didn't have any when we attacked.

You do remember that part, don't you?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:06 pm
I already told you they were moved out of the country. You choose not to accept that, and i am fine with that, but stop pretending we never had the conversation.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:18 pm
Here's something you may want to invest in, if you truly believe that Saddam shipped his most powerful weapons out of the country just prior to being invaded:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/afdbhead.jpg

It will come in handy keeping the Liberal Media Beams out of yer noggin.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:27 pm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/2/18/233023.shtml?s=lh

"A top Pentagon official who was responsible for tracking Saddam Hussein's weapons programs before and after the 2003 liberation of Iraq, has provided the first-ever account of how Saddam Hussein "cleaned up" his weapons of mass destruction stockpiles to prevent the United States from discovering them.

"The short answer to the question of where the WMD Saddam bought from the Russians went was that they went to Syria and Lebanon," former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John A. Shaw told an audience Saturday at a privately sponsored "Intelligence Summit" in Alexandria, Va. (www.intelligencesummit.org).

"They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units out of uniform, that were specifically sent to Iraq to move the weaponry and eradicate any evidence of its existence," he said.
"
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:31 pm
Yeah, yeah, I've read the article that lead to that nonsense theory.

Apparently the Russians gave Iraq our battle plans as well. Maybe Bush et al should spend more time paying attention to Russia then they do their own avarice.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:32 pm
woiyo wrote:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/2/18/233023.shtml?s=lh

"A top Pentagon official who was responsible for tracking Saddam Hussein's weapons programs before and after the 2003 liberation of Iraq, has provided the first-ever account of how Saddam Hussein "cleaned up" his weapons of mass destruction stockpiles to prevent the United States from discovering them.

"The short answer to the question of where the WMD Saddam bought from the Russians went was that they went to Syria and Lebanon," former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John A. Shaw told an audience Saturday at a privately sponsored "Intelligence Summit" in Alexandria, Va. (www.intelligencesummit.org).

"They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units out of uniform, that were specifically sent to Iraq to move the weaponry and eradicate any evidence of its existence," he said.
"
Spetsnaz?! Oh, brother! The lengths some people will go to avoid admitting error in themselves or in their idols...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:34 pm
I would invest in one of those Cyc, but all those folks in the 9/11 conspiracy threads have them back logged.

Perhaps you can ship one to General Sada after reading his book.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:36 pm
Sure, his upcoming book has nothing to do with the fact that this story is getting a lot of play on your side of the fence. It doesn't give him a reason to lie, either, nah.

You really believe this dreck?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:39 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Sure, his upcoming book has nothing to do with the fact that this story is getting a lot of play on your side of the fence. It doesn't give him a reason to lie, either, nah.

You really believe this dreck?

Cycloptichorn


It's better than the one were the magic WMD fairy swooped into iraq and made the WMD's vanish into never, never land... isn't that what your side is saying?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 12:50 pm
No, our side is saying that Saddam destroyed the vast majority, if not 100%, of his WMD supply after the first Gulf War. The majority of evidence supports this position, and you should also try applying Occam's razor to the situation; it is far more likely that Saddam destroyed these WMDs than a complicated plot involving Russian Spetznaz units to hide them in Syria is.

The argument that the WMD were moved has the same problem that the proponents of the war originally had: a real lack of evidence to back up one's case. You don't even have as much evidence as the 9/11 conspiracy theorists do Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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