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73 years ago: Dachau first German concentration camp

 
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 11:37 am
Wow. I didn't notice the date on the Dachau photo. Thanks, Walter.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 11:40 am
roger wrote:
Wow. I didn't notice the date on the Dachau photo. Thanks, Walter.


2006 minus 73 years = 1933. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 12:17 pm
Before those concentration were built (and even afterwards) 'non-conformists' were taken into "Schutzhaft" (protective custody) in normal prisons or specially altered buildings.

This could happen "legally" due the "Reichstagsbrandverordnung" from Fenruary 28, 1933 [a special by-law after made after the burning of the Reichstag) in conjunction with the "Notstandsartikle" (state of emergency constitutional article) 48, 2 of the Weimar constitution.

Such places looked like this one

http://i1.tinypic.com/rw2bmo.jpg

Those Communists and Social-Democrats were later tranferred to the concentration camps.

The leading journalist of a smaller newspaper (a Communist or at least very left Social-Democrat) was imprisoned there and later "shot on the run" on the transport to a KZ: there are letters published, where he said, hew wanted to go into the KZ to report from there.

He was Jewish as well, but in those days that wasn't a reason for getting imprisoned (but not long afterwards).
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 12:21 pm
So, being busy an not having time to read through all of your sites, who are you researching and what happened to Niemöller. Did he survive the camps?

I have read several books on the Holocaust.

One is "Auschwitz" by Sara Nomberg-Przytyk. It a tale by a survivor. Very moving.

Another is "Soldiers of Evil" by Tom Segev. It's about the Commandants of the concentration camps. It's interesting to note that most of the commandants were insignificant people who would have gone through life as angry men harming no one if Hitler's Third Reich had never been created. Makes one wonder how many potential camp commandants are out there today unable to express their anger or devotion to an ideology of hate.

I suppose there will always be "camp commandants" out there. You just need the right conditions to bring them out.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 12:39 pm
xingu wrote:
... who are you researching and what happened to Niemöller. Did he survive the camps?

I'm doing some researches about a WWI captain, who later became a policeman, than an officer in the "order police" and finally a "SS-leader and police general", hanged 1946 in Kiev.

Niemöller - at spartucus.schoolnet


xingu wrote:
I suppose there will always be "camp commandants" out there. You just need the right conditions to bring them out.


That might unfortunately be true.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 12:52 pm
interesting. what offends you, lash? i mean it in the best possible way, i am really just curious. I find the photos moving, disturbing, but why offensive? Perhaps it's a language issue on my part, but i can't quite see it. I take offensive as something that personally disagrees with you - something perhaps taken out of context, misinterpreted, exaggerated, or mocking... whatever that upsets your emotions. But that also includes that the originator of the offense would have some such intent - as to mock, misinterpret, exaggerate.... I don't see this as a case...? Just puzzled.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 12:55 pm
Walter, I think Lash was asking why you felt the need to post the photos, not if you felt this was necessary to happen in 1933-45... .but again, that is just my understanding.


I, for once, am all for remembering the past...whether good or bad. The only way to move forward is to come to terms with our past. I chose that for a job in fact. Reconciliation of ethnic conflicts through reconciliation of diverging historical narratives. I'm always glad when Walter posts about his research, I'm learning a lot.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:02 pm
The above mentioned journalist was arrested in March 1933 by so-called "auxiliary policemen" SA and Stahlhelm members.
(SA = SturmAbteilung = Storm Section, more here; The Stahlhelm, Bund der Frontsoldaten (German: "Steel Helmet, League of Frontline Soldiers") was one of the many paramilitary Freikorps organizations that arose after the defeat of World War I in the Weimar Republic. Became integrated into the Sturmabteilung in 1934 and in 1935 was dissolved by the Nazis, who feared its fundamentally monarchist character).

http://i1.tinypic.com/rw3nnm.jpg

When he was shot, his paper* still could report tht: he was murdered, but they said shot on escape.

http://i1.tinypic.com/rw3q0n.jpg


(* a Social-Democratic daily newspaper, and he was a member of the SPD, not a communist. And he was supposed to be imprisoned in the KZ Dachau, actually.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:05 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
Walter, I think Lash was asking why you felt the need to post the photos, not if you felt this was necessary to happen in 1933-45... .but again, that is just my understanding.


If that is the case, I don't understand that either.
0 Replies
 
detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:15 pm
There are people who lived in the sunshine of safety all their lives. Many of them cannot understand suffering because they were thousands of miles away when the horrors of war ravaged far-away places.

For instance, in my opinion, it is impossible to know what hunger feels like for those who have never starved.

Doctors without borders are a select group of humans who volunteer to go and serve in the hellholes of the world.

They could stay home with their BMW and cosy house; they choose to do something to help others.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:20 pm
Well, all the more reason for us sheltered people to try to grasp what humanity is capable of, I think.

I am just writing a chapter on the relationship of communism and nationalism in the Eastern Bloc in 1950s. Mind boggling stuff. One thing that disturbs me most is that some of those who suffered most in 1950s (political prisoner who went through torture and humiliation) became the most ruthless leaders a decade or two later (Gomulka, Husak...). How does that happen to people? ..... sorry Walter for hijacking... just spinning off on the topic of rememberance and learning from it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:33 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
..... sorry Walter for hijacking... just spinning off on the topic of rememberance and learning from it.


It's okay for me, dagmar. :wink:
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:45 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
roger wrote:
Wow. I didn't notice the date on the Dachau photo. Thanks, Walter.


2006 minus 73 years = 1933. :wink:


I know how to add and subtract, Walter. I don't always bother to do either that, or follow every link.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:51 pm
xingu wrote:
So, being busy an not having time to read through all of your sites, who are you researching and what happened to Niemöller. Did he survive the camps?

I have read several books on the Holocaust.

One is "Auschwitz" by Sara Nomberg-Przytyk. It a tale by a survivor. Very moving.

Another is "Soldiers of Evil" by Tom Segev. It's about the Commandants of the concentration camps. It's interesting to note that most of the commandants were insignificant people who would have gone through life as angry men harming no one if Hitler's Third Reich had never been created. Makes one wonder how many potential camp commandants are out there today unable to express their anger or devotion to an ideology of hate.

I suppose there will always be "camp commandants" out there. You just need the right conditions to bring them out.


You might also be interested in the book, The Survivor by Terrence Des Pres http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195027035/qid=1142970656/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-4486788-6191254?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 01:55 pm
Quote:
One thing that disturbs me most is that some of those who suffered most in 1950s (political prisoner who went through torture and humiliation) became the most ruthless leaders a decade or two later (Gomulka, Husak...). How does that happen to people?


Perhaps they saw this, through their own experience, as an effective means to control dissent. Once they acquired power it was in their interest to retain it as long as possible. Not having an traditional means of succession meant that a loss of power could result in their being persecuted or killed.

Stalin's purges of the old communist of the Lenin era may have impressed upon them the need to retain power till death.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 02:27 pm
Not only because it's just a stone's throw away from my native town, not only because we tried at school (history classes) and university (history) to dig out about - it's shows exactly how some of those who must have seen this reacted: either negated it's presence in totaliter or minimising a horrible past to "bad times".

Since it's related:

From the leaflet of a just released dvd (which I highly recommend - you may ask for price/portage at [email protected] - about 14 Euros for Germany)

Quote:
Wewelsburg - Cult and Terror Centre of the SS (DVD 056/a movie from 1996, dvd-version 2006)

Wewelsburg Castle, which stands high above the Alme Valley some twenty kilometres southwest of Paderborn, was built between 1603 and 1609. Its location, unusual triangular form and chequered history excited the interest of Heinrich Himmler, the Reich Leader of the SS. In 1934, the SS rented the castle from the district of Büren. In 1936, work started on converting Wewelsburg Castle, which was originally envisaged as a „Reichs Leaders' School", into a prestigious ideological centre for the SS Group Leaders. The plans were extended in 1941 to include the entire district. Had they been executed, the village of Wewelsburg would have disappeared.

In spring 1939, the SS established a concentration camp in Wewelsburg. It was reclassified an independent organisation and renamed „Niederhagen Concentration Camp" in 1941. The SS planned to use the Camp immate for the extensive conversion work. Of the approximately 3,8000 people interned there, 1,285 died as a result of the inhumane working and living conditions, On 31 March 1945, shortly before the war ended, a special SS commando blew up the castle at Himmler's command. It was gutted, leaving outside walls standing. Since 1950, it has again been home to a youth hostel and a district museum (as it had been before 1934).

The film centres on the experiences of Otto Press, a former political prisoner. He poignantly describes his experiences living in the camp and doing construction work in the village, Until his death in 2003, he continually sought dialogue with young people and supported the work of the District Museum.


In addition to presenting the history of Wewelsburg castle during the Nazi period, the documentation on contemporary history, „Wewelsburg 1933 - 1945. Cult and Terror Centre of the SS", which opened in the District Museum in 1982, also shows the difficulties the population faced in coming terms with the National Socialist legacy after 1945. For a long time, the documentation provided the only focal point in the village for commemorating the victims of Niedernhagen Concentration Camp. The Camp itself made way for a residential and commercial estate. Only a few relicts such as the inmates' kitchen, the gatehouse and part of the roll call area are recognisable today. It was not until the year 2000, fifty-five years after the end of the war and four years after the documentary film had been released, that a commemorative symbol, which the survivors of the concentration camp had continually demanded, was unveiled (thanks to the initiative of young villagers) on the former roll call area. A quarry stone memorial, recalling the triangle worn by inmates, commemorates in three languages the victims of SS violence in Wewelsburg.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 02:27 pm
http://www.ns-gedenkstaetten.de/nrw/de/wewelsburg/thema_1/img/58.jpg
1941, with the "little camp" behind the trees

http://kriegsende.ard.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID1192284,00.jpg
Main camp, about 1947/8

http://kriegsende.ard.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID1196744,00.jpg
About 1949

http://kriegsende.ard.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID1192242,00.jpg
Today
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 03:25 pm
was the castle itself eventually a part of the concentration camp, or did it continue to serve as an elite school for nazi leadership?
why did they blow up the castle? did himmler simply not want others to enjoy his castle, or was it hiding some important evidence/documents?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 03:33 pm
The castle was part of the planned leite school plus a "spiritual" center.

Why did the blow it up? I suppose, they didn't want that "Germanic culture" fell in the hands of barbars. Or something like that.
There wasn't really a reason - no important evidence of anything. And documents from there are more or less all of architectural nature, medical documents, some obscure ideas etc
(Fortunately in this case, even the worst Nazi civil servants were still German civil servants and thus fussy bureaucrats.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 03:40 pm
Walter showed us round Wewelsburg...its a creepy place.

Seemed like the high temple of Nazism, a place where political ideology and religion fused together.

God knows what rituals they got up to there...or rather God doesnt know, as I rather doubt he was invited.

Nice views from the windows though....you can see Air Berlin flight AB8531 landing at Paderborn
0 Replies
 
 

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