Butrflynet
 
  2  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 05:32 pm
The Liberals Are Coming! The Liberals Are Coming! Run For Your Lives!
blueflame1
 
  1  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 05:39 pm
@okie,
okie, yeah WW2. Some history. In my studies I discovered some startling history that shows involvement with Hitler of some of the same American families and corporations who lied us into war in Vietnam and Iraq and who armed our enemies and who led the way in this current economic crisis and are embedded in the Bushie administration. The betrayal by these families and corporations have gone on for generations. I think Obama could be the one who steers us away from that kind of betrayal. Knowing our history could help us not get fooled again. http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/
okie
 
  0  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:10 pm
@blueflame1,
Hitler was a socialist, blueflame, you need to read some history. He was a dictator that came to power via elections, etc., but he was also from a very dysfunctional background, red flag, blueflame. He was a demagogue and came along at a time when the Germans were vulnerable to his promises. Sure, he used some of the industrialists, but they were suckers, and that is why we need to examine very carefully anybody that comes along that is unrealistic in terms of what they promise and what they will do. And how many rich people are backing Obama? Alot.

In regard to Vietnam, it was the Democrats that escalated that war and presided over the apparent deceit involved.

I agree that knowing history could help us avoid the same mistakes, but history needs to be accurately assessed. You might want to read about Neville Chamberlain of Great Britain, that got suckered numerous times, and wanted to believe the best in people like Hitler, to the point of appeasing one of the worst tyrants ever to come along, so that more people probably died than would have otherwise if he had not been suckered. The same danger exists today, and the world could very well be more dangerous today than it was prior to WWII.
okie
 
  0  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:16 pm
@Butrflynet,
Butrflynet wrote:

The Liberals Are Coming! The Liberals Are Coming! Run For Your Lives!

Butrfly, sorry you don't see it the same way, but many of us do very much believe that liberal policies taken to the extreme are far more dangerous than a conservative people with a conservative government. Also, anytime the people place too much faith in government or one particular politician, it creates a dangerous situation ripe for a demagogue to take advantage of it.
okie
 
  0  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:41 pm
@okie,
Note, I will continue to warn people, here or anywhere, as I do care about our country, I love it dearly. It is offered me, given me the opportunities to pursue happiness in an atmosphere of freedom. It has not guaranteed happiness, and for that I am also thankful.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:42 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Also, anytime the people place too much faith in government or one particular politician, it creates a dangerous situation ripe for a demagogue to take advantage of it.


You're correct, okie. That's exactly what the Conservatives did and the chickens are coming home to roost.

As for liberalism being taken too far to the extreme, I think that many people are going to find out exactly how much of a centralist Senator Obama is. There are going to be extremes on both sides of him that won't be happy.

okie
 
  0  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:44 pm
@Butrflynet,
And what politician or government did I or other conservatives place alot of faith in, Butrfly?
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:45 pm
@Butrflynet,
Quote:
There are going to be extremes on both sides of him that won't be happy.


That's always the case Buttie. Did you not know? Or did you think we didn't know?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:50 pm
@Butrflynet,
And Obama a "centralist?" That is far different than a "centrist" I hope you know, Butrfly? An exreme centralist, I think might also be described as a dictator? Or all power concentrated in one central place, Washington D.C.

Was that a Freudian slip?
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 07:19 pm
@okie,
One having moderate views, so I guess you have yourself another gotcha, Okie. I used centralist when I meant centrist because I was thinking of someone in the center/middle as evidenced by my description of extremes on both sides being unhappy.

I'll go ahead and put up a chicken scratch in your column on the score board and hang my head in shame.
nimh
 
  2  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 07:55 pm
@okie,
Okie wrote:
And what politician or government did I or other conservatives place alot of faith in, Butrfly?

Let me answer that, Okie.

On A2K, on 4 November 2004, we could find such "other conservatives" saying stuff like:

____________________________

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I like Bush, and I voted for him rather than against Kerry.

He thinks big, and I like big thinkers. [..] I look for more big things from Bush over the next four years


JustWonders wrote:
Finn - I actually like George Bush, too, so was happy to read your post and know I'm not the only one on A2K who does. I only got to see part of his "victory" speech, but found it touching and so "him".


Moishe3rd wrote:
President Bush will go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents this nation has ever had. [..]

George W Bush is a fine man and a great President.


Ticomaya wrote:
[George Bush] made my heart swell with pride when I realized that the America I knew under Reagan and Bush 41 was back. [..]

Bush is a President that is not afraid to make the tough decisions that need to be made in order to keep this country safe. [..] The economic problems came as a result of 9/11, not as a result of Bush's leadership.
okie
 
  0  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 08:28 pm
@Butrflynet,
Thats what I thought you meant, butrfly. Thanks for the explanation.

But Obama has been rated as one of the most extreme, if not the most extreme, in terms of voting, in the Senate?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 08:32 pm
@nimh,
I don't think conservatives worship Bush. As for me, he was far from my first choice when he ran, and I disagree with him on many things, agree with him on others. I think he is basically a good man and I don't think he deserves all the flack thrown his way. He has done some good things, and could have done more if the Dems had not obstructed alot of things. Much of what is happening now in regard to the economy, the Democratic Congress needs to be held accountable. Bottom line, Bush is a decent man, but he has not pleased everyone, and no matter what Republican was president, the Dems would demonize him or her.
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 1 Nov, 2008 08:36 pm
@okie,
Quote:
And what politician or government did I or other conservatives place alot of faith in


But now it's handy to forget your actual rhetorical question and shift over to 'worship'?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sun 2 Nov, 2008 04:39 pm
@sozobe,
Have you gone to vote yet, soz? I heard (on BBC !) that the early voting line-ups in Columbus were as long as four hours!
old europe
 
  2  
Sun 2 Nov, 2008 05:11 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Hitler was a socialist, blueflame, you need to read some history.


Amazing. You peddle that kind of bullshit, and at the same time you complain that people today are "not aware of history". Incredible.

---

This is a chart of badges used by the Nazis in the concentration camps to identify the reason the prisoners had been placed there:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Kennzeichen_f%C3%BCr_Schutzh%C3%A4ftlinge_in_den_Konzentrationslagern.jpg

The red triangle was used for Political Enemies - Social Democrats, Socialists, Trade Unionists and Communists.


Amazing how Hitler could have been a socialist while labelling socialists "political enemies" and killing them in concentration camps, eh?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Nov, 2008 05:40 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

okie wrote:
Hitler was a socialist, blueflame, you need to read some history.


Amazing. You peddle that kind of bullshit, and at the same time you complain that people today are "not aware of history". Incredible.


Indeed. Burt what do you expect from ... ?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Nov, 2008 05:50 pm
I've visited the cathedral of Ely (England, UK) today. (The cathedral was started by William I in 1083, the diocese founded in 1108.)

Like in all Catholic and Anglican cathedrals, you've a special chapel for private prayers.
In the entrance were today's prayers - as done in Sunday's masses.

I've copied the firsts paragraphs of the firsts page:

http://i34.tinypic.com/3462693.jpg

[The second topic is about the situatiation in Congo.]
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 2 Nov, 2008 06:20 pm
@ehBeth,
I haven't yet. It's likely that my early-voting location will have longer lines than my election-day voting location. (In 2004, when lines were horrendous elsewhere, I was in and out within 15 minutes or so.)

I wrote on Observationalism about whether I'm going to be a line manager -- might team up with a friend to do it. Depends on my health (feel much better today than yesterday, so maybe).

Details on line manager here -- I think it's a fabulous idea:

http://observationalism.com/2008/11/02/the-best-news-ive-seen-all-year/
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sun 2 Nov, 2008 06:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Wow, cool find.

T
K
O
 

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