Obama '08?

Agreed about Colin Powell, who I think has a lot of parallels.

nimh, I know, my thinking is not so far from that, hence the copious qualifiers. ("may not be as crippling" to start out with, and LOTs of "mights", including in the part you quoted. Not "will", "might".)

I don't think people really "fell for that" with Kerry, either. I think there were some things basically off with him; people already didn't trust him and the Swiftboat stuff gave them an excuse for their inchoate distrust rather than actually changing their minds.

One thing that Dowd said I very much agree with (which is unusual):

Quote:

[The Democrats] should find someone captivating with an intensely American success story -- someone like Senator Obama, Tom Brokaw or some innovative business mogul who's less crazy than Ross Perot -- and shape the campaign around that leader.

I've said variations of that before. I think a lot is lost when you have a compromise candidate, a focus-group candidate. I think someone like McCain shows that people are willing to overlook ideological divergence (to some extent, at least) if they basically trust the person.

Obama seems promising in those terms.

I understand what you mean about the inherent distrust factor of "black + drugs", though. It's what I've said many times (and say it again here, if in the context of my being less negative about it now than I have been). If that were the case, a smear would be effective because it would give people that excuse, that "see, I knew I didn't trust him" thing.

So far it's been mostly liberals + moderates who have responded, interested in getting more input from that group but would also love to know what Republicans/ Independents think about him.

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I didn't say she'd WIN it according to the polls. But, she's a major contender, who is the only one among them who has said she will not run.

If the GOP was so anti-black, how the hell could she get up there?

Your analysis on this is weak. I think it's what you wish, not what you logically deduce.

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(I had a feeling I was going to hit a hot button)

Snood - I think it's obvious that our society is more accepting of light skin. I'm not saying it's right, it just is. Look at Hollywood, the black actresses all tend to be mocha. There isn't a bigot in American that would turn down a date with Halle Berry or Jessica Alba. Even in black society I've noticed there is this idea that lighter skin is more attractive. My very dark Nigerian girlfriend in college would point out light skinned black women and admire their skin color. She would tell me I was crazy to get a tan in the summer, not for health reasons but "because you will ruin your light complexion". I've seen studies that show the darker the skin the more likely you will be convicted of a crime - even if the jury is mostly black. Beauty is cultural, western culture likes things on the pale side.

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Oh, stuff happened while I was typing.

Yeah, I don't think America is over the color issue.

Good to see you here, Lash. I think I remember you saying good things about him before. If, just for example, the election was between McCain and Obama, would there be a chance of Obama getting your vote?

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Lash wrote:

I
If the GOP was so anti-black, how the hell could she get up there?

I don't think the GOP is anti-black or racist, they just hate poor people.

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Actually, re: Lash's posts, who is/are the top elected black Republican office-holder(s) today?

I mean, dont get me wrong - kudos to Bush for appointing Powell and Rice. But Presidential appointments say nothing about how ready the Republican electorate is to vote for black candidates.

(Same, of course, for the overall electorate, but this was in re: to Lash)

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I think most of us agree with you there, Green Witch, but are pointing out that it seems to contradict what you said about America being over the color issue.

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nimh wrote:

Hmm, well ya gotta wonder why, if that were the case (America being over the color issue), there's not many more black elected officials already. Obama's only the third popularly elected black senator in US history, and there's only ever been one black popularly elected governor (and that was fifteen years ago).

How many blacks run for Senate?

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Green Witch wrote:

(I had a feeling I was going to hit a hot button)

Snood - I think it's obvious that our society is more accepting of light skin. I'm not saying it's right, it just is. Look at Hollywood, the black actresses all tend to be mocha. There isn't a bigot in American that would turn down a date with Halle Berry or Jessica Alba. Even in black society I've noticed there is this idea that lighter skin is more attractive. My very dark Nigerian girlfriend in college would point out light skinned black women and admire their skin color. She would tell me I was crazy to get a tan in the summer, not for health reasons but "because you will ruin your light complexion". I've seen studies that show the darker the skin the more likely you will be convicted of a crime - even if the jury is mostly black. Beauty is cultural, western culture likes things on the pale side.

Yep - pity, isn't it?

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Green Witch wrote:

(I had a feeling I was going to hit a hot button)

Snood - I think it's obvious that our society is more accepting of light skin. I'm not saying it's right, it just is. Look at Hollywood, the black actresses all tend to be mocha. There isn't a bigot in American that would turn down a date with Halle Berry or Jessica Alba. Even in black society I've noticed there is this idea that lighter skin is more attractive. My very dark Nigerian girlfriend in college would point out light skinned black women and admire their skin color. She would tell me I was crazy to get a tan in the summer, not for health reasons but "because you will ruin your light complexion". I've seen studies that show the darker the skin the more likely you will be convicted of a crime - even if the jury is mostly black. Beauty is cultural, western culture likes things on the pale side.

Thats all (sadly) true, GreenWitch, but I think snood's point was that, knowing this, it is a bit naive to at the same time argue that "America is over the color issue". I mean, obviously not.

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(I'm not gonna type anything else until this thread slows DOWN already! Laughing

)

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sozobe wrote:

Oh, stuff happened while I was typing.

Yeah, I don't think America is over the color issue.

Good to see you here, Lash. I think I remember you saying good things about him before. If, just for example, the election was between McCain and Obama, would there be a chance of Obama getting your vote?

There's always a chance, depending on their responses to issues that are important to me. I don't know enough about him to count him out, or count him in.

He is appealing, so far. But, he is really, seriously inexperienced. That would likely give me pause...unless he came out with intuitive ideas and philosophies about America's place in the world...foreign policy...trade...

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OK, that's all I'm going for at this point. Good to know. I've been extremely impressed with his ideas, philosophies, and policies so far -- as well as his ability to communicate them -- so if that's what would decide you, I'd be optimistic.

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Green Witch wrote:

Lash wrote:
I
If the GOP was so anti-black, how the hell could she get up there?

I don't think the GOP is anti-black or racist, they just hate poor people.

Love to have an opportunity to show you different.

I'm currently poor.

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Lash wrote:

I didn't say she'd WIN it according to the polls. But, she's a major contender, who is the only one among them who has said she will not run.

If the GOP was so anti-black, how the hell could she get up there?

Your analysis on this is weak. I think it's what you wish, not what you logically deduce.

Ehm.. Rice is polling something like 10%-20% of Republicans when they're asked who their favoured presidential nominee would be.

I dont think that the preference of one out of ten, or one out of five, Republicans for a black candidate says much about the GOP as a whole. Its still a rather small minority, after all.

Not that I wouldnt want Rice to get it, of course. It would be a great break-through. I'd love to be proven wrong by the Republican electorate on this one.

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nimh wrote:

Green Witch wrote:
(I had a feeling I was going to hit a hot button)

Snood - I think it's obvious that our society is more accepting of light skin. I'm not saying it's right, it just is. Look at Hollywood, the black actresses all tend to be mocha. There isn't a bigot in American that would turn down a date with Halle Berry or Jessica Alba. Even in black society I've noticed there is this idea that lighter skin is more attractive. My very dark Nigerian girlfriend in college would point out light skinned black women and admire their skin color. She would tell me I was crazy to get a tan in the summer, not for health reasons but "because you will ruin your light complexion". I've seen studies that show the darker the skin the more likely you will be convicted of a crime - even if the jury is mostly black. Beauty is cultural, western culture likes things on the pale side.

I understand greenwitch's comments. One says the country won't consider race as an issue in a vote, but that our society, including blacks, prefer lighter skin. They also prefer women that wear a size 1.
Thats all (sadly) true, GreenWitch, but I think snood's point was that, knowing this, it is a bit naive to at the same time argue that "America is over the color issue". I mean, obviously not.

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I don't think the GOP is anti-poor, but I do think the party is selling poor people a bill of goods. As in, "These policies (e.g. tax cuts that benefit the well off) will help you when you have more money."

The American Dream is to have more. I think people buy into a fantasy rather than a realistic approach to a better life...

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snood wrote:

Green Witch wrote:
(I had a feeling I was going to hit a hot button)

Snood - I think it's obvious that our society is more accepting of light skin. I'm not saying it's right, it just is. Look at Hollywood, the black actresses all tend to be mocha. There isn't a bigot in American that would turn down a date with Halle Berry or Jessica Alba. Even in black society I've noticed there is this idea that lighter skin is more attractive. My very dark Nigerian girlfriend in college would point out light skinned black women and admire their skin color. She would tell me I was crazy to get a tan in the summer, not for health reasons but "because you will ruin your light complexion". I've seen studies that show the darker the skin the more likely you will be convicted of a crime - even if the jury is mostly black. Beauty is cultural, western culture likes things on the pale side.

Yep - pity, isn't it?

Yes, it's a pity we judge people by how they look, but the whole world does it.

By saying we are over the color thing, I meant that 20 years ago there was no way in hell that a black man would be seriously considered as a presidential candidate. A black candidate would be ignored as a novelty. Today I think the prospect is very real and the idea is taken seriously by the majority of Americans.

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OK, I have no idea how nimh's name is attributed on my preceding post.

Sorry, nimh.

This was said by me, not nimh.

I understand greenwitch's comments. One says the country won't consider race as an issue in a vote, but that our society, including blacks, prefer lighter skin. They also prefer women that wear a size 1.
~~~~~~~~~~~

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Here's his website, with lots of info about him:

http://www.barackobama.com/main.php

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