firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2014 11:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
No need to be hungry...

Come on over, CI, anything you'd like to eat will be prepared for you. Wink
http://able2know.org/topic/242048-1
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2014 01:04 pm
@firefly,
A generous offer that needs to be rewarded equally. Come out to San Francisco, and I'll treat you to a great meal.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2014 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's the best offer I've had all day. Thanks, CI.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 12:26 pm
Update on Obama from an insider.
Quote:
Clinton and Geithner's books will be released just four months after former Defense Secretary Robert Gates' memoir landed like a sucker punch in the West Wing. Gates gave political advisers in the White House virtually no warning — and no advance copy — of his headline-generating memoir, which included sharp criticisms of Obama's decision-making.


I've criticized Obama when I didn't agree with his decisions, and it seems more top Obama appointees are doing the same. I find this refreshing and well deserved.
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 01:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Persist in your nonsensical criticisms of Obama and maybe you will succeed in getting Jeb Bush elected. Bush will certainly appoint Paul Ryan to head Treasury.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 03:21 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Persist in your nonsensical criticisms of Obama and maybe you will succeed in getting Jeb Bush elected. Bush will certainly appoint Paul Ryan to head Treasury.


What's worse is he might try to appoint Ted Cruz to the Supreme Court.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 04:59 pm
@Advocate,
This is the mindset they all count on - they don't have to answer for their crimes because they have you fighting their battles for them.

Look at them all objectively, and call them to task.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 05:14 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate, I calls em like I sees em. If you want to criticize what I post, please delineate why you think as you do in support of Obama. Trying to forecast future political events based on my opinion is not constructive to any discussion.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 05:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
After the gold fiasco I should hope not. Didn't you recommend voting for Obarmy?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 05:52 pm
@spendius,
What has that got to do with my criticisms of Obama?

I guess you've never been married, or have siblings with different beliefs about politics and/or religion.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:13 am
@sozobe,
I am just kind of tickled by the idea of my 2007 self communicating with her 8-years-in-the-future self -- even if it's only one way.

Anyway, just read this article about the memo given to Obama two weeks before I gave him the "drive to the basket more" advice (which can be summed up as "drive to the basket more" Wink )

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-to-beat-hillary-clinton
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:18 am
@sozobe,
Hi stranger! OK, so who are you passionate about this time around?
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:29 am
@engineer,
Hey engineer!

Answer: Nobody. Sad I'm sad about that and definitely waiting and seeing but that's where I am right now.

After following Hillary so closely in the '08 election I have serious and continuing concerns about her. Not to the point where I wouldn't vote for her if she was the candidate, but to the point where I'm looking elsewhere for a better candidate… and not really finding one.

Which is part of why I was such an Obama supporter -- I was thrilled to have someone who I thought was not just an OK candidate but an excellent one.

What about you?
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:40 am
@sozobe,
Hi. I agree, except at times I actually get to that point.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:02 pm
@sozobe,
Hi Soz! Listen, I have always respected your opinion, so what you say about misgivings about Hillary and about not seeing anyone in this group you really want to support resonates. I just want to compare notes, so to speak, with you about those "misgivings" - to see if they're the same as mine.
I've always, always felt a kind of smarminess coming from the Clintons. Like, something was just not visible that was ugly. I could only ever speculate about what that something might be. My guess is that what I'm sensing is an incredibly huge sense of entitlement combined with hubris - sort of like they both have always thought they were smarter than everyone, so that any means they employ to be successful was justified. Like they both think that the gratitude the world owes them for being 'public servants' should certainly outweigh any responsibility they have for basic ethics or even basic humanity, maybe.

I don't experience the bitter, visceral hatred that some folks do - even some folks who want to vote democratic - like Lash. But I do very much get the distaste people have for Hillary - and it's not totally easy to quantify. She has lied about some things that point to a flawed character, but she has worked on progressive issues and shown a deftness in navigating the political cesspool enough that I can't discount her as possibly the best bet.

Would you mind sharing your feelings about Hillary - why you distrust or dislike her; why you aren't motivated about her candidacy...?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:50 pm
@sozobe,
god that's depressing to read

that whole unifying thing didn't work out

Sad
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:54 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

god that's depressing to read

that whole unifying thing didn't work out

Sad


If Obama somehow could have seen in advance what his efforts to reach out would have gotten him, I would have loved to see how he would have governed differently.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 11:44 pm
@snood,
Quote:
Some are scratching their heads why, after nearly six years in office and a reshuffling of his legislative affairs team, Obama's working relationship with Congress remains prickly.


“It's hard for us to fathom; I mean, is it just lack of full staffing and resources? [Is it] professional commitment? Is it a disdain for the legislative branch? I mean, what is it?” asked Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.). “People like me want to be allies — I mean, I am an ally. So work with us, reach out to us; you know, we're not the enemy.”

Connolly emphasized that he has "no complaints" with the administration's outreach when it comes to logistics and political operations. But as a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, he's long-been frustrated by the White House’s approach to "the bread-and-butter of congressional relations and the policy front."

“That’s made our jobs harder,” he said.

Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, lamented what he characterized as a history of the White House dropping its plans on congressional Democrats without warning.

“Not being consulted ahead of time — that just makes people crazy,” Grijalva said. “Let us know ahead of time. Call us in when you're developing something so we can give you our ground-level reality check about how this is going to work.”

Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) likened the relationship between presidents and their Capitol Hill allies to that between quarterbacks and the offensive linemen charged with protecting them. Some quarterbacks, he said, simply manage that alliance better than others.

“Certainly, Bill Clinton saw us as his offensive line, and so he attended to the nurturing of his offensive line,” Moran said. “And I don't think this president, this quarterback, invests all that much time and effort into the care and feeding of his offensive line.

“You can still win,” Moran added. “It just makes it a little more difficult.”

It's one of Washington's worst-kept secrets that many Democrats have, for years, been frustrated by what they consider a lackluster communications operation between Obama and his allies on Capitol Hill.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/215082-house-dems-cant-figure-out-why-obama-wont-talk-to-them

When The Professor makes little effort to work with D's on Capital Hill his excuse that he cant get anything done because people refuse to work with him rings false.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2015 04:54 am
I do not disagree with Snood, Sozobe, and the many others who have some negative considerations about Bill and Hillary Clinton (I also have them)...

...but I do at least want to say that I, personally, think that anyone who thinks they have decent ideas about how to improve the lot of humanity through the political process...

...has an obligation to do everything, and damn near anything, possible to get elected.

Having great ideas for what to do if elected president...is a very, very distant second to actually getting elected, because if you don't get elected...for the most part your "great ideas" are merely food for an Internet blog.

Yes, Hillary games the system; she changes perspectives to suit the political climate of where she speaks; she cozies up to...and takes needed money from people and institutions I'd prefer she not...

...but she is absolutely sure she is the best person for the job...and she will invest all of herself into getting elected.

All that sits pretty high in my opinion...and if I could persuade others who see it as a negative to view it in a more positive light...I would.

The game of "I want to be president" is not unlike the Game of Thrones...and is not for the weak of heart...or for those who require always putting principle ahead of expediency. It'd be nice if it were, but it isn't.
snood
 
  5  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2015 05:22 am
@Frank Apisa,
The only problem with your equation of 'expediency vs principle' is that part of a person's choice for a candidate has to do with simple trust. No way around that - no matter what one thinks about the respective abilities of someone to manipulate and navigate the system, there has to be somewhere the belief that when it comes down to it, that person will represent their desires for what the government does. That's the problem with Hillary for a lot of people just as smart as you or me. They look at Hillary and they see someone who they don't know will always make the choice to do the right thing or the thing that serves HER.

I'd like to see more respect given from you toward people of good conscience and serviceable intellect who struggle with this choice. Just exactly like I'd like Lash to show more respect for those who calmly and soberly come to the conclusion that Hillary is the better choice.

It's tiresome seeing both of you pigeonhole those of disparate opinions with labels that paint them as naive, corrupt, stupid or somehow unsophisticated. They are just not you.
 

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