Is being gay a choice?

Oh, Lightwizard, since I was innactive on a2k for almost a year I can't send PMs. It's the reason I haven't been able to reply.

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Being gay isn't a choice, it is hereditary and your either born with it or not.

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atypical10 wrote:

Being gay isn't a choice, it is hereditary and your either born with it or not.

I used to hold this position as well. For many years.
Of course, when I seriously started researching and came up with no evidence to support the position (research brought on by certain logical conundrums with 'inherent sexuality') I began to rethink it.

Do you have any evidence to support this position, or are you, like I was, and many in this thread still are (see:lightwizard) holding this position simply because..?

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'simply because'?

I have never known a person who is gay to admit he made the choice to be. It's a laughable question to ask a gay person whether he made the choice - well, laughable or enraging.

Simply because? If I had developed breast cancer with no family history, without ever smoking, after having lived a life of healthy diet and excersize - would you say that I had chosen cancer?

Bad analogy perhaps, comparing being gay to having cancer.....

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littlek wrote:

'simply because'?

I have never known a person who is gay to admit he made the choice to be. It's a laughable question to ask a gay person whether he made the choice - well, laughable or enraging.

Simply because? If I had developed breast cancer with no family history, without ever smoking, after having lived a life of healthy diet and excersize - would you say that I had chosen cancer?

Bad analogy perhaps, comparing being gay to having cancer.....

lol!

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Ok, how about this. My sister married a twin. He and his brother are fraternal twins. They look very similar to one another, but one has bigger bones and a broader physique. Did the finer-boned one chose to be skinnier? Did the more robust one chose to be more aggressive in the womb? Or was it because of an innate personality/genetic difference?

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AND! And, would you then deny either one of the two brothers the reality that he hadn't chosen?

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You go girl!!!

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Every once in a while I get a wild hair and can't not say something.

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littlek wrote:

'simply because'?

I have never known a person who is gay to admit he made the choice to be. It's a laughable question to ask a gay person whether he made the choice - well, laughable or enraging.

Simply because? If I had developed breast cancer with no family history, without ever smoking, after having lived a life of healthy diet and excersize - would you say that I had chosen cancer?

Bad analogy perhaps, comparing being gay to having cancer.....

I used to agree with this. Why would anyone choose that..it isn't rational!
Well guess what, as it turns out, a lot of people aren't rational.
Besides, I never said 'choice'. As a determinist I don't think choice really exists anyway, but external environmental stimuli does. I don't really think whether the gay person 'wants' to be gay is here nor there.

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So..... external environment can be that which exists in the womb?

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littlek wrote:

So..... external environment can be that which exists in the womb?

Huh? Are you trying to imply gay people know they are gay with their first breath?
That sir, is ridiculous.

However, by the time a person has developed to the point of possessing sexual attraction for someone/thing, they have already been shaped by their environment in a wide variety of ways.

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I guess you guys and girls all know you're playing bedfellows with the specter of definitions?

Why not try to define country music by the number of times the words cowboy, beer, and truck are used?

It's fun to wax poetically; the second sentence was very poetic, the first one not so much.

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Doktor S wrote:

littlek wrote:
So..... external environment can be that which exists in the womb?

Huh? Are you trying to imply gay people know they are gay with their first breath?
That sir, is ridiculous.

However, by the time a person has developed to the point of possessing sexual attraction for someone/thing, they have already been shaped by their environment in a wide variety of ways.

Who the hell cares how a person becomes gay? (or heterosexual, or bisexual, for that matter!)

The fact is they are gay & they are people.

And as much deserving of respect as anyone else.

I'm really tired of all this nit-picking: Is it a choice? How did it happen? Could they become "normal" if they really, really tried? Good grief!

A person's value is what they are, what they do with their life. I couldn't give a damn about their sexual orientation, race, political orientation (so long as they don't expect everyone else to live their way), or whatever ....

Give us a break!

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msolga wrote:

Doktor S wrote:
littlek wrote:
So..... external environment can be that which exists in the womb?

Huh? Are you trying to imply gay people know they are gay with their first breath?
That sir, is ridiculous.

However, by the time a person has developed to the point of possessing sexual attraction for someone/thing, they have already been shaped by their environment in a wide variety of ways.

Who the hell cares how a person becomes gay? (or heterosexual, or bisexual, for that matter!)

The fact is they are gay & they are people.

And as much deserving of respect as anyone else.

I'm really tired of all this nit-picking: Is it a choice? How did it happen? Could they become "normal" if they really, really tried? Good grief!

A person's value is what they are, what they do with their life. I couldn't give a damn about their sexual orientation, race, political orientation (so long as they don't expect everyone else to live their way), or whatever ....

Give us a break!

Thank you for that huff of righteous indignation, but arguments about the "nature vs. nurture" aspect of a plethora of human behaviors- including sexuality - have raged for decades, and will not be swept away because someone is "tired of the nitpicking".

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I do know a little about nature/nurture debates, snood. I just found aspects of this particular "debate" rather offensive.

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Are offensive people born that way or is it learned because of their environment? Are bigoted people born that way or is it learned because of their environment? I guess some have interviewed a lot of people, particularly newborns, to absolutely know what they are writing about. Not.

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Lightwizard wrote:

Are offensive people born that way or is it learned because of their environment? Are bigoted people born that way or is it learned because of their environment? I guess some have interviewed a lot of people, particularly newborns, to absolutely know what they are writing about. Not.

Hahaha...

MsOlga, everyone, sorry that I am getting down to nitpicking details. But, it seems that this is the way arguments progess around here. I agree whole heartedly with your sentiments, Olga.

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msolga wrote:

Doktor S wrote:
littlek wrote:
So..... external environment can be that which exists in the womb?

Huh? Are you trying to imply gay people know they are gay with their first breath?
That sir, is ridiculous.

However, by the time a person has developed to the point of possessing sexual attraction for someone/thing, they have already been shaped by their environment in a wide variety of ways.

Who the hell cares how a person becomes gay? (or heterosexual, or bisexual, for that matter!)

The fact is they are gay & they are people.

And as much deserving of respect as anyone else.

I'm really tired of all this nit-picking: Is it a choice? How did it happen? Could they become "normal" if they really, really tried? Good grief!

A person's value is what they are, what they do with their life. I couldn't give a damn about their sexual orientation, race, political orientation (so long as they don't expect everyone else to live their way), or whatever ....

Give us a break!

This is just the type of 'foot in mouth' argument I was talking about when I wrote this.

I wrote, pages and pages ago, at a point you were active in the thread:

Quote:

It seems to be the norm for the 'pro gay' crowd to argue for the innateness of homosexuality, while the 'antigay' crowd to argue it is a learned behavior. When I state that I don't think sexuality is innate, many (like our darling lightwizard here) make a lot of unwarranted assumptions. I am not 'antigay' although I am not attracted to other men.

I am talking about logistics and mechanics, not moral positioning. I have made that quite clear.

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littlek wrote:

So..... external environment can be that which exists in the womb?

Of course. Although it's internal in relation to the mother, it's external in relation to the zygote, fetus and/or embryo.

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Is being gay a choice?

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