Is being gay a choice?

RaceDriver205 wrote:

Jesus, I cant keep up with you people. You put out some serious material,

Wolf, your arguments that homosexuality is not/is a disorder is very much argued, and there are two strongly opposing sides. There is evidence that it is caused by excessive andosterone levels in the womb, nurture etc. I would still emphasise the key point of this thread, that it is NOT a choice.

Phoenix, That statement about couples who dont want children is tripe. Observe:A gay does not choose this, so it must be a fault in himself - a disorder. He has NOT HAD A CHOICE. Someone who chooses to smoke and thus kills himself did not have a disorder - he chose to kill himself.
Homosexuallity has never been natures way of controlling populations - that'd be disease, predators, lack of food etc. Nature obeys the law of natural selection. Being gay is selected against.

Montana, whatever. How bout we sterilise people. That sounds great. Millions of unwanted and starving children is just life. You cant fix it by increasing the number of gays. Oh, and form your own arguments, instead of saying "yeah, what she/he said". And living well is a crap revenge. If someone wastes your family, does living well really cut it?

Doctor S, its about time this thread had someone like you in it. Homosexuality would remove its-self as you say. It is true or not that homosexuality is curable? because you would know more of this than I, (or wizard for that matter). Wizard doesnt know nuts, he is defending himself to the bitter end, not because he is right, but because accepting he is wrong would hurt to much.

Did you read this snood?

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Good one, snood. There's more to coming out of the closet than being gay. I wouldn't say blind, just myopic. There is more scientific research with positive results that points towards genetic and hormonal causes than any research disproving innateness. Their "research" is that gayness can be cured but the results of trying to cure it are apparently something they want to keep to themselves. They will continue to rant without offering any evidence to back up their claim with the tactic of asking others to disprove what they are hypothesizing. Thinly disguised agents of NARTH? Likely.

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One point.....

I think that there are actually more people born barren than born gay. If natural selection against gays means they must be making the choice, than how do you account for the barren people of the world?

I'll try to look up stats if need be.....

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All this comes about, because none of this is genetic in the inheritance sense, but genetic in the epigenetic sense. The switching on and off of genes, which requires environmental stimuli.

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You are correct.

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Actually, I think it's the same as being left-handed. People just ARE.

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You know some people can't just leave it at that. They get little gremlins running around in their heads telling them they must do something about people being gay. It's the relatives of Peter Pain.

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NickFun wrote:

Actually, I think it's the same as being left-handed. People just ARE.

I hear you. That analogy (tongue in cheek or not) doesn't fit real well with those middle aged adults who marry, raise several kids, then realize they're gay and start a whole other life. It's a lot more certain which hand develops the better dexterity.

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True, one doesn't bury the fact in their own mind that they are left-handed. If some found left-handedness as immoral, they might try to find any biased and trumped up "science" they can dredge up to prove it was a choice.

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RaceDriver205 wrote:

Montana, whatever. How bout we sterilise people. That sounds great. Millions of unwanted and starving children is just life. You cant fix it by increasing the number of gays. Oh, and form your own arguments, instead of saying "yeah, what she/he said". And living well is a crap revenge. If someone wastes your family, does living well really cut it?

If I agree with someone, it's because I share the same view and I don't feel a need to repeat what someone else just said, so no need to get your panties in a bunch about it!
You accuse me of no being able to form my own arguement, then you start playing with my signature line and talking about "if someone wasted my family" and what not.
What the hell does any of this have to do with what we're talking about here?
I never said anything about increasing the number of gays or sterilising people, for that matter, so please don't be putting words in my mouth.
I said that the lack of children generated by gays is not going to harm the world one bit. Not in those exact words, but it all boils down to the same thing.
Your post to me was obviously meant to try and make me look stupid and nothing more!

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Lightwizard wrote:

True, one doesn't bury the fact in their own mind that they are left-handed. If some found left-handedness as immoral, they might try to find any biased and trumped up "science" they can dredge up to prove it was a choice.

Of course, I have met people who remember being ambidextrous as a child, then 'choosing' to use either one or the other hand as dominant.

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How does one choose who they are attracted too?

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Ambidextrous - bisexual. You've just described a bisexual who does have a choice to go either way. Ss I stated before, the jury is still out on them. Having met many of them, I still don't have an answer. It is a blank spot in the studies but it still belies anone "learning" to be either way. One doesn't learn to be hetero, bi or gay by some teacher or any other environmental influence.

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Ok, it's become painfully obvious lightwizard is not going to address my arguments, and instead focus on my typos as a sure sign of victory and correctness, I think I'll move on...

Flushd,

I wrote:

I have already stated some reasons why I think sexuality is not inate. I will re-itterate:
If homosexuality was genetic, the gene (or gene sequence) would/should have died out long ago due to not being passed on. Yet gay people exist.
If sexual preference were inate, what would account for the wide variety of sexual preferences/fetishes that exist?

These are my main two logical problems with sexual innateness.

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Until I was 5 I was ambidextrous before I settled on my right hand. No one forced me and I didn't "choose". The same principle applies to sexuality. The percentage of left handed people does not change over time nor does homosexuality. Here's something on left-handedness:

In Britain, around 13% of men and 11% of women are now left-handed, compared to just 3% of those born before 1910. There are a number of factors driving this increase:

* Left-handers were severely discriminated against during the 18th and 19th centuries and it was often "beaten out" of people
* In adulthood, left-handers were often shunned by society, resulting in fewer marrying and reproducing
* As discrimination was reduced in the 20th century, the number of natural left-handers who stayed left-handed increased
* The rising age of motherhood contributed as, statistically, older mothers are more likely to give birth to left-handed children

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I am left-handed. :wink:

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I am right-handed but I do know how to smack someone back of the head with my left.

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(Someone hear an annoying gnat in here?)

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I'm ambidextrous ;-)

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Lightwizard wrote:

Ambidextrous - bisexual. You've just described a bisexual who does have a choice to go either way. Ss I stated before, the jury is still out on them. Having met many of them, I still don't have an answer. It is a blank spot in the studies but it still belies anone "learning" to be either way. One doesn't learn to be hetero, bi or gay by some teacher or any other environmental influence.

There's nothing complicated about it. Seriously, what is with all this b*llshit about 'the jury is still out on them'.?! It's very simple.

People are getting catty for no reason. We all have some learning to do so fricking relax and put your nose down.

DocS, thanks. I'll respond in a moment once I've calmed down. I have more I want to say.

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Is being gay a choice?

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