Is being gay a choice?

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

One, does this mean an asexual is disordered? An asexual has no sexual attraction to any gender whatsoever. Is that a disorder?

Nifty & timely too! The Asexuality of Isaac Newton and Others http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=71622&highlight=

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JLNobody wrote:

Eryemil, your logic is impeccable. I once asked a gay guy if he ever had sex with a woman. He answered "Heavens no; why should I?" It works both ways.

I'm a logical beast, hear me roar! :wink:

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Doktor S wrote:

Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
Hum.
If you haven't had a sexual experience, how can you be absolutely sure of your sexual orientation?

Doctor S.- I don't know about you, but I can remember being attracted to boys when I was in the 1st grade, where sex was not even an issue yet.
You don't have to have sex, for a person to know to whom he is attracted!!!

Sure sure, but can you be sure that wasn't a result of external influence, rather than internal drive? We do a lot of things because we feel we are supposed to, and I see no reason why that couldn't extend as deep as to influence preference. In fact, that you felt 'attracted' before your hormones would have been telling you to sort of supports this.
I used to think it would be really cool to be in an 'open' relationship. I was absolutely sure it was for me. That is, of course, until I tried it.
Experience is the ultimate teacher.

External influence? For Pete's sake, I was 6 years old. I remember the incident like it was today. He was brilliant and gorgeous. And I was madly in "love" with him. (I remember something about attempting to "seduce" him, but at that time, all I wanted was for him to kiss me. )

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Doktor S wrote:

If you haven't had a sexual experience, how can you be absolutely sure of your sexual orientation?

Eryemil wrote:

For some reason this kind of question always puts me off, sexual attraction doesn't depend on sexual interaction, it's the other way around. People, for the most part, take part in sexual acts *because* they're attracted to a person, they don't become attracted to others by having sex with them. So basically you can be attracted to a certain sex and never had sex yourself. It makes sense doesn't it?

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Doctor S.- I don't know about you, but I can remember being attracted to boys when I was in the 1st grade, where sex was not even an issue yet.
You don't have to have sex, for a person to know to whom he is attracted!!!

What does my/your/her/his sexual attraction have to do with my/your/her/his orientation?

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Quote:

What does my/your/her/his sexual attraction have to do with my/your/her/his orientation?

Walter- I am not sure to what you are referring. I would suspect that a person with a hetero orientation would be sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex, while a gay person would be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex.

Is that what you mean?

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Doktor S wrote:

Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
Hum.
If you haven't had a sexual experience, how can you be absolutely sure of your sexual orientation?

Doctor S.- I don't know about you, but I can remember being attracted to boys when I was in the 1st grade, where sex was not even an issue yet.
You don't have to have sex, for a person to know to whom he is attracted!!!

Sure sure, but can you be sure that wasn't a result of external influence, rather than internal drive? We do a lot of things because we feel we are supposed to, and I see no reason why that couldn't extend as deep as to influence preference. In fact, that you felt 'attracted' before your hormones would have been telling you to sort of supports this.
I used to think it would be really cool to be in an 'open' relationship. I was absolutely sure it was for me. That is, of course, until I tried it.
Experience is the ultimate teacher.

This is not a matter of preference Doktor S just lack of common sense, the open relationship bit I mean. If you had examined your character before you got into said relationship you would have realized it wouldn't work for you. It's that simple mate, not thinking things through beforehand it's not an excuse. :wink:

It baffles me how people can confuse orientation with preference. I am gay, that's pretty much set in stone. (Or would you like to try your hand at aversion therapy?) On the other hand I choose not to be involved with either closeted boys or drunk, straight guys. That's choice. Very Happy

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Well, I ain't no expert, but it seems to follow that one is oriented to that which holds personal attraction.

A compass is oriented northward because of magnetic atrtraction. A person is oriented toward hetero/homo sexuality because of physical attraction.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Walter- I am not sure to what you are referring. I would suspect that a person with a hetero orientation would be sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex, while a gay person would be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex.

Is that what you mean?

I know a couple of gays thought to be very attractive be female heteros - while I especially think, two lesbians to look really very, very attractive.

Until now there has for 57 years none question me being hetero - and I suppose the same for the above named females (also some have a couple of years less experiences).

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Walter- It must be very early in the morning for me. I don't think that I am completely comprehending what you are saying.

Are you saying that it is possible for a hetero person to be attracted to a gay person of the opposite sex?

If that is what you meant, of course that is possible. In fact, there are straight people who will attempt to get close to a gay person, believing that they will be the one who will turn the gay person hetero.

BTW, I would like a buck for every woman who was attracted to Rock Hudson, Richard Chamberlain, or Cary Grant, who were all gay!

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Yes, that what I wanted to say - and that such has nothing to do the person's own sexual orientation ... which truely only can be found out .... what Dr. S said :wink:

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Yes, that what I wanted to say - and that such has nothing to do the person's own sexual orientation ... which truely only can be found out .... what Dr. S said :wink:

Well, in that case, they're not really straight out homosexual but of a bisexual nature with possible leanings towards one extreme of the sexuality scale. Makes me wonder whether we should ditch these supposedly catch-all, one-size-fits-all terms and go for terms a little bit more precise.

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I doubt that, Wolf_ODonnell. Besides that it oppose (most/all) studies and scientific opinions I've heard of, my personal experiences are totally different.

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Just turn things around -- a homosexual who is a latent heterosexual? Kinsey, and Masters and Johnson, as well as other several studies since their results put sexuality on the map showed that many of us have experimented with sex outside our orientation even though more likely at an early age. But a truly heterosexual male or female who indulges in a homosexual experiment is not going to become gay.

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Correct, LW.

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Huh? I think maybe I misread some of your posts.... I'd better go back and check.

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You mean in regards to bisexuality? That, indeed, is hard to put one's finger on. I have stated that bisexuality is more often a homosexual who is not out and perpetuates a heterosexual lifestyle as a cover. Territory covered quite well by "Brokeback Mountain" and earlier with "Making Love." It can be a sexual libertine who has no hang-ups about sex and continues experimenting with both, perhaps for an entire lifetime.

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Indeed. It's things like bisexuality that make me wonder whether our obsession over classification is justified or is even realistic.

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There are shades of grey and at the core is the belief that sex has to always be dirty if it's outside one's experience and comprehension. The government has gradually relented in legislating morals. The religious right wants everyone to conform to how they interpret the Bible with a definite conflict of interest between the Old Testament and the teachings of Christ.

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LW, I like to think that sex is "dirty" even when--or especially when--it's within the range of my experience and comprehension. It's the basis for my gratitude for my early Catholic education.
Motto: Sex is supposed to be sexy.
Or as a Taoist might put it, "Go with the natural flow of things."

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It is dirty if it is forced on another person. If we fantasize about another person but never act on it, that's not even dirty. It's can only be ultimately frustrating. Between consenting human adults it should be only what they believe it is.

"It's nobody's business but ours."

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Is being gay a choice?

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