Why does God permit suffering?

aiden, It's really not "that" way; when I have visited third world country, I have made donations of school supplies and money. I have never felt insensitive to the hardships of people around the world; I've seen most of it with my own eyes.

What I meant was that as individuals, we have very few choices in how we spend our lives. I will admit to having felt blessed to have been born and reared in the US where opportunities abound for those willing to work for it. I've seen too many around the world where the people has great potential, but was held back by their government and economy.

All my siblings are christians. When my sister's husband suffered from Parkinson's and had a heart attack, she took care of him and prayed many times daily. After he passed away, my sister "lost" faith for about a year, then returned to church. She is a devout christian.

ci - I didn't mean to imply that you're selfish or uncaring. I think you seem a very caring person. I'm talking about everyone - myself included.

You know - it's like I can deal with the fact that life isn't fair- if I think there's some justice or fairness somewhere or sometime. But if/when that possibility is removed- the whole thing just seems too sad and unfair and pointless for the huge majority of the world's people.

I mean, what purpose does the whole kit and kaboodle serve?
Don't you ever ask yourself that?

We hear of those regularly where some individual does something that is heart-warming, and proves again and again that there are many good people on this planet.

I never felt you implied anything negative, so don't worry about it.

I'm now reading Sir Edmund Hillary's book about his climb to Everest and also his trek to the South Pole. He's also a gentleman who has helped the Tibetans build schools in the Himalayan Mountains in addition to water systems and bridges. He was a beekeeper in New Zealand, but has accomplished "miracles" in not only in achieving the first climb to Everest, but by helping people of Tibet who he have come to respect and adore.

The whole kit and kaboodle is what we make of it. I believe we have lived in the "best generation" when opportunities abound for us, and by making the right financial decisions, we had the ability to travel this small planet of ours. Some of it was karma, and some of it was luck. I always like to think that the glass is always half full.

I don't think anyone has the answers. I think everyone is searching and looking for something on some level. The idea of a God brings comfort to some and to others it does not. We are all fallible in some way shape or form. Whether that be our words, actions, beliefs, it doesn't matter. The idea that there is a infallible God is not a bad one... but it cannot be proven to the satisfaction of many simply because it requires one simple thing.... Faith. An almost impossible feat to one who has never known such a thing. Who is faced with the reality of the world we live in day by day by day.

Does that make a God any less real? No. Not to the ones who believe in him because in their mind "He is." Whether that be a reality to anyone else but them. The mind is a powerful force that is hard to defeat once it gets locked onto an ideal. Whatever that ideal may be. I can tell you this much though. Whether christians want to admit it or not their beliefs are fear based. They say their fear is good because they "fear God" and not men. Yet they often use their beliefs to try to scare others into believing it too all under the guise of concern for their eternal soul.

They are not afraid because in their minds they are not the ones going to hell. I am... You are... If we don't "believe". So what if I don't "believe"? What if I believe this hell the bible talks about is right here... right now...? What if I believe I can be god? Would this all loving creator send me the one he created with my own mind, thoughts, ideals, goals, dreams, aspirations to hell? Hum. Maybe. I'm sure if I murdered someone our government would send me to prison, but our government has never overbearingly tried to control how I live.

What I believe. Who I hang out with. What I drink. Eat. See. Feel. Wear. Nope. No one has the answers except each individual. I have my answers. those are good enough for me, just as yours are good enough for you. Suffering happens because people suck. They do stupid stuff and hurt others. Not because a God isn't looking or caring. Not because the government is having a hard time controlling crime. Suffering exists simply because we exist.

No - not all the time - maybe not even most of the time.

Treya, You need to "open up your mind" to the realities of this world and nature. If god was so "loving," why did he create the great flood that killed all humans and animals except those on the "ark?" That means he killed all the innocent babies who didn't have a chance to live out their lives. That's loving?

Why does any god have to make a "sacrifice" of their son to deliver man from their "sins?" Can't he just say "let there be light?" After all, he is "god."

Jesus wept.

God does not permit suffering. God permits free will and people create their own suffering.


link

Do you mean all those tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, fires, volcanoes, and earthquakes are from man's free will? Or is that the wrath of god? LOL

If you live where there are all those things listed are occurring, please use your free will and move.

God created such an imperfect world; places like California and Japan with all our earthquakes, tsunamis in the Pacific, hurricanes in the gulf and Caribbean, and floods all over the world. Gee, god is his own idol; he loves humans praying to him for safety and good health.

So, do you suggest everybody who lives in unsafe areas move? And you have the gall to call that "free will?" You're out of your freq'n mind.

That reminds me of a Sam Kiniston riff - the one where he was talking about Africans starving and he screamed, 'Of course you're starving - you can't grow food - you live in a desert...YOU LIVE IN A ******* DESERT!

I guess that could be construed as funny - if the starving people and children had anywhere to move to.

I couldn't read the link (it wouldn't open on my computer - I don't know why) that provided the rest of your article. I was wondering if 'love' and/or 'affection' are referenced as anything other than craving and clinging. In other words - are they seen as necessary and beneficial to the human condition in any way, and so exempt as one of the ways in which humans cause their own suffering?
Are they even referenced?

Well actually... I'm on your side of the fence now believe it or not. I just may not have presented it as well as I would have liked. Basically, I believe there is most likely a creator who is not even remotely close to what is represented by those calling themselves christians... The bible doesn't even really fit into the equation at this point based purely on the fact it's a bunch of stories written by a bunch of men. However, there are a few good principles to live by through-out those pages. Unfortunately you'd have to read the whole thing through several times to catch on to them. *sigh*

You are right, not all the time... or even maybe most of the time... However, think about it this way... people are people. I am a person right? I can certainly inflict my own suffering just as much as anyone else could inflict it upon me. So what I said wasn't merely meaning all our suffering is caused from outside influences. The worst kind of suffering there is, is in fact what we bring on ourselves. Irregardless though... suffering still starts somewhere and I believe it's mostly people based... whether others or myself.

Frank would call you an agnostic. To admit you don't know is rational enough.

A person who doesn't smoke, drink, eats healthily, see's the doctor for check-ups, et al, and, not through any fault of their own, gets cancer and dies. That has nothing to do with free will and it's only one example. It does have something to do with the elusive hand of fate -- randomness cannot be explained and it most certainly can't be explained by religion.

I know; the christian's belief in "free will" has so many holes in it, it makes me wonder how they are able to keep fooling themselves.

Once their brains are indoctrinated, it's almost impossible to change it. They are able to divorce themselves from common sense and the "real" world around them. Amazing!

Free will has become the handy religious excuse for the ills of the world.

Hi, CI

For what it's worth:

In the third chapter of Genesis, God set in motion the process for Jesus' redemption of mankind.

Thoug it may seem to us to be an eterenity, it is but a day in the view of Jehovah.

There will come a day when all who have died, including those who did not know god, will have a second chance at life.

The earth will be clean; there will be no more war and crime and sickness and death.

I welcome discussion on these topics.