Islam

I don't think and responsible Islamic Cleric would tell someone to suicide bomb, while promising 20 virgins in the after life.

BDV wrote:

I don't think and responsible Islamic Cleric would tell someone to suicide bomb, while promising 20 virgins in the after life.

Perhaps you can explain Abu Bakar Bashir ?

Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakar_Bashir

Shinobi, muslims have a different philosiphy. Kill those who don't agree and kill those who try to leave. Any time there's more than two muslims together there's violence. A rather normal trend amongst wild animals.

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Have read through some of muslim1's previous posts. You'll see her clear support of death for apostates.

And, it seems to me that most westerners are demanding understanding from those people, but giving little or none in return.

Wilso wrote:

Shinobi, muslims have a different philosiphy. Kill those who don't agree and kill those who try to leave. Any time there's more than two muslims together there's violence. A rather normal trend amongst wild animals.

Fascinating.
Utmost generalization and lack of any will to understand different cultures.
Then you could say: If the Capitalist culture can't get you to join, it either blasts you to pieces with rockets (so not to get blood on their shirts) or buys off all the means for life, making you de facto a slave..

Or for example, football games? How do you then explain the vandalism and violence there? Is it not a part of civilized culture?

Can someone explain what happened to the American natives when the colonists came? Weren't these colonists "civilized"?

Capital punishment? Isn't that a form of institutionalized murder, with the responsibility for life passed allong in a "mob-jury"?

Hiroshima, Nagasaki? What were those? Ways to perserve life of soldiers?

Did any muslim state invade a western state in the last century for oil or any resource?
...

Do not get me wrong, I'm neither a muslim, christian, or anything other. I keep myself clear of any ethicets.

Would you please define what makes the West more "civilized", and please define the meaning of "civilized"?

Hiroshima was indeed an appauling act of brutality on innocents, but Hiroshima in New York is the ultimate dream of many MANY muslims all over the world.

Shinobi, you seem to think of the west as Christian. Some of us, indeed many of us, in the "west" would like to see all forms of religion wiped from the face of the earth by the clear light of science and reason. Islam is one of most dangerous religions in the world right now, and I don't see why you are defending it. Hiroshima was indeed an appauling act of brutality on innocents, but Hiroshima in New York is the ultimate dream of many MANY muslims all over the world.

and Hiroshima in all islamic states, russia, china plus north korea the dream of many americans (Once they get the oil out of course)

Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them, capture and besiege them and prepare for them every kind of ambush. (9:5)

Muslims are taught that the Koran existed eternally in heaven, and that God ordered Gabriel to recite it to the illiterate Mohammad in Mecca in the 570's AD. Divine inspiration apparently makes up for Mohammad's illiteracy - he later dictated the Koran to others who wrote it down.

the Koran was compiled shortly after Mohammad's death in 632

Perhaps they don't follow their religion to the letter, but use common sense instead, any muslim witha tiny bit of sense realises that a war with the christian world would only end in disaster for themselves.

Islam does speak against anyone non-muslim, and does say go to war with them, but the old testament preaches quite abit of revenge and war also.

Quote:

Muslims are taught that the Koran existed eternally in heaven, and that God ordered Gabriel to recite it to the illiterate Mohammad in Mecca in the 570's AD. Divine inspiration apparently makes up for Mohammad's illiteracy - he later dictated the Koran to others who wrote it down.

Quote:

the Koran was compiled shortly after Mohammad's death in 632

Islam has the same problem as christianity and judaism, the koran was not complete on Mohammads death, and there is also no surviving versions older than 200 years, so god knows how many edits/add-ons/mistranslations it has went through, and who is to say that the person who wrote it down did not add bits here and there, sure mohammed could not read.

Have we ever had a reasonable explanation of why we should put any credence in the contention that an illiterate ne'er-do-well who battened on a succession of widows and matrimonially raped a nine-year-old girl was the conduit of god's wisdom?

It is easy to see why the work of the "new historians" cause such offence in some Muslim circles, and there is no doubt that much of what they say is deeply provocative. In 1987, two years befor Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa condemning Salman Rushdie to death for blashphemy, ** then based at Oxford wrot the following words about Allah and Mohammad, his earthly messenger: "Mohammed's God endorsed a polcy of conquest, instructing his believers to fight against unbelievers wherever they might be fournd. In short, Mohammed had to conquer, his followers liked to conquer, and his deity told him to conquer.

In Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam * argued that the early Muslim converts turned to Islam because it promised an Arab state based on conquest, rape and pillage. "God could scarcely have been more explicit. He told the Arabs that they had a right to despoil others of their women, children and land, or indeed that they had a duty to do so: holy war consisted of obeying"