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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 12:32 pm
Oh phooey!!! I wanted to see the next debate, I'll be busy at 7.

Unless it's a time zone thing -- may be able to if it's at 8.

(Off to look.)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 12:33 pm
No, you say ET. Darn.

Transcripts are nice, anyway.

I'm really hoping Obama dials things up a notch or three for this one. Health care plan + good debate performance could do good things for him.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 12:43 pm
I think I have the time right, but someone else may want to check that.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 07:06 am
http://www.surveyusa.com/chartfx70/temp/CFV0605_0905063C81F.png
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollTrack.aspx?g=d067a329-54cd-49cc-b932-931399878267
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 08:13 am
According to the most recent polls, Giuliani is now ahead of McCain, and Obama is now almost even with Clinton.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 12:32 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
According to the most recent polls, Giuliani is now ahead of McCain

Giuliani has been ahead of McCain for eons, pretty much since they first started asking back in 2004.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 03:28 pm
Not unlike last cycle; "unnamed" Democrat is once again the Democrat's most popular candidate. Residual ABB logic? Don't know. Giuliani is still in the lead for the Republican nod, and polls show that he holds up better in the General than any of his competitors. On the other side of the ball; both Edwards and Obama poll better in the General than does Hillary; yet she's usually still on top for the Democratic bid. Rolling Eyes I was astounded to see Obama actually passed her by in the latest Gallup poll (released today). While Giuliani still looks like a winner over Hillary in the General; The percentages reverse when you replace Hillary with Obama... and Obama becomes the polling favorite.

This is too cool. At this juncture; Republicans should consider campaigning for Hillary in the Primary, while more democrats still need to find the clue that reads "get behind Obama".

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4360/unnameddemocratts3.jpg
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 03:51 pm
Saw that poll earlier. 'unnamed D' is kicking the **** out of 'unnamed R.'

I think this has implications for the Congressional races as well...

Cycloptichorn
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:20 pm
Is anyone watching the Republican debate now?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:22 pm
Yes. I was surprised that Ron Paul got some applause a minute or two ago.

Cycloptichorn
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:24 pm
But what do you make of the huge swing as soon as a name is filled in? It would appear the Democrats need only supply a candidate that America likes and they win in a landslide. But have they?

Obama: is an inexperienced (Rolling Eyes), Black (Shocked) man with a funny name (Rolling Eyes). Major plus's in charisma, speaking ability and likeability, but not a ton to sink you teeth into in any traditional way.

Hillary: Through no fault of her own, she is, after all a she. She's also a personality that many, many Democrats react to as someone they'd NEVER vote for. Add to this; she has plenty of skeletons in her closet, both real and fictitious, that will no doubt be exploited to her detriment.

Edwards: Ambulance chasing scumbag that talks like a used car salesman, who in my opinion continues to belittle his base. Case in point. He admitted he made a 'mistake' in backing the Iraq War. This in itself is the right move for a Democrat. BUT; rather than showing the courtroom savvy I would expect from him; letting his constituent point out "at least he has the metal to admit his errors"... he regularly reminds everyone of the fact as if his admission makes the combination (mistake/admission) a feather in his cap. Now it may be, or may have been if he was clever enough to not go so far out of his way to blow his own horn about it. As it is; he just ends up looking like the opportunistic scumbag that he is.

Biden: Here is a man that actually sounds Presidential. He has a long history of personifying the Democrats philosophy, while simultaneously making it clear that he is a leader who has more than enough confidence in his own judgment. On the other hand; his love of the cameras has too often caused him to make a complete ass of himself (remember the hearings?). Even so; I doubt a significant percentage of Americans have paid enough attention that he couldn't overcome that by behaving better in the future. His biggest problem is; dude doesn't have any money. He also has a Mondale-like smart-ass persona that probably doesn't appeal much to the Dem base.

Richardson: This guy is a friggin moron. Again in the debate; he couldn't carry a thought long enough to not step on his own d!ck. I'd say he is the classic example of a man who's been promoted to position beyond his competence.

Kucinich: An anomaly who generally shows a fine mind, strong conviction and tremendous Democrat-favored ideals... but he's stuck with a charisma rating of about -10. He lacks the truly important (Rolling Eyes) height, strong chin and good looks to be a contender... and is therefore irreversibly broke when it comes to campaign funding.

Now granted; this is a much better field than 4 years ago when the Dem's hoisted a Weathervane, a scumbag ambulance chaser, and a so-called lunatic as contenders. (Personally; I think if the Dems had circled the wagons around Dean and embraced, rather than scoffed at, his energy; he would probably have replaced George Bush). Instead they chose the least likeable of their field. I can only assume that virtually any Democrat but Kerry could have defeated the already highly unpopular Bush.

What does it tell you that the, arguably, most popular Democrat alive (Bill Clinton) is a philandering, traitor-pardoning, liar, who was impeached for lying to a Grand Jury? (I mean, the fairest, most lenient assessments of his Presidency is 8 years of not making things worse.) It tells me that the Democrats aren't exactly stellar at choosing representatives for their cause.

Now imagine the commanding lead Obama would have today if he were a well known, experienced white man. Shocked I'm actually glad no equally endowed white man is running against him, because I think his current popularity is already an enormous step for race-equality. I strongly suspect America's polling is reflecting more race-openness than reality, because of the lesser quality of his competition. But so be it. The idea that a black kid can turn on the news and see a black man leading charge for the Presidency of the United States is a truly wonderful thing.

I've drifted pretty far, but to sum up my original point; Democrats have a lousy history of backing the right Democrat to deliver their message. It just doesn't make sense that they can't field a candidate, or won't throw their collective weight behind the right candidate to narrow the gap between the "unnamed" Democrat and any actual candidate.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:25 pm
nimh wrote:
Is anyone watching the Republican debate now?
No cable, and CNN is too dickheaded to simulcast on the web. Sad
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:28 pm
I think that's a cogent summary, Bill.

Earlier Nimh and I were discussing the fact that the Dem's just can't nominate anyone but a wishy-washy, b/c they are afraid of losing the middle to the Republicans. I think that people would vote for a strong, leadership-exuding Liberal before a wishy-washy Dem.

On the other hand, there really isn't a strong Republican out there. More than half of those in America don't know a damn thing about Guiliani's history or his stance on abortion; once that goes up, his numbers will plummet.

I still hold that McCain will get the Republican nomination.

Cycloptichorn
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:30 pm
Brownback said, a bit ago, something like "I think we need to work with the union movement in Iran, which is coming up now, there was just a bus drivers strike"

Wow - such warm words for trade unionism! Well, I can only cheer on the sentiment that unions play an important role in protecting ordinary people. Smile

On a more serious note: I also cheer on the idea of tackling authoritarian regimes like Iran's by working with civil society there. Dont talk like the choice is between tolerance and war, between passivity and tactical nukes, like American politicians, especially rightwingers, often do. If you want democratisation there, then the democratic-minded people there will need to achieve it, so support them, rather than moving on to sabre-rattling that will just isolate and marginalise those democrats in their country.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:31 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Is anyone watching the Republican debate now?
No cable, and CNN is too dickheaded to simulcast on the web. Sad

I'm watching it on the CNN site! Perhaps only abroad or something?

Tancredo, a while ago: "We are becoming a bilingual nation, and that is not good."
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:32 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Is anyone watching the Republican debate now?
No cable, and CNN is too dickheaded to simulcast on the web. Sad


Not quite that dickheaded - I just clicked on a banner on their page, and am watching it here at work.

Cycloptichorn
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:33 pm
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Is anyone watching the Republican debate now?
No cable, and CNN is too dickheaded to simulcast on the web. Sad

I'm watching it on the CNN site! Perhaps only abroad or something?

Tancredo, a while ago: "We are becoming a bilingual nation, and that is not good."


Shorter Giuliani in this debate:

"I'd invade Iraq again RIGHT NOW."

"9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 AD INFINITUM"

Cycloptichorn
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:40 pm
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Is anyone watching the Republican debate now?
No cable, and CNN is too dickheaded to simulcast on the web. Sad

I'm watching it on the CNN site! Perhaps only abroad or something?

Tancredo, a while ago: "We are becoming a bilingual nation, and that is not good."
Shocked I am an idiot. Now I'm watching! Thanks!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:45 pm
Wow, everyone is falling over McCain on immigration, like a rat of hounds, cheered on by the public. There's even heated off-mike remarks between candidates in the background as one is talking on-mike.

Only Brownback sticks with him, conditionally, and making McCains point more articulately than he'd done. Principles, he's got, that man. He may be a Christian fundie, but he's got principles and sticks up for em even when theyre impopular.

McCain too, though, just now, speaking up as the single, only candidate on the demogagic question, "will anyone who does NOT want English to become the official language speak up now". Saying he is "allright" with how it is now. Navajos in his state have official documents in their own language; and people will learn English, also want to learn English, because thats how they get a chance in society, to become prosperous (implying its not necessary to have an official language).

Tommy Thompson on Fred Thompson: "Its this Thompson, not the actor, thats the conservative."
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2007 05:46 pm
Is this a debate or a TV Evangelist's program. Shocked
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