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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 09:29 am
The members who cherry picked the phrases "McCain misspoke" from the posted articles evidentally did not read the articles. McCain was not saying that things are not signficiantly better in Iraq. He, I believe, was saying that he misspoke when he suggested that the security surrounding his entourage was normal security and later realized that the security for his safety had been beefed up.

Today he says the following (and for those members who intentionally or unintentionally misprepresented his message, please note the last line):

The War You're Not Reading About
By John McCain
Sunday, April 8, 2007; Page B07

I just returned from my fifth visit to Iraq since 2003 -- and my first since Gen. David Petraeus's new strategy has started taking effect. For the first time, our delegation was able to drive, not use helicopters, from the airport to downtown Baghdad. For the first time, we met with Sunni tribal leaders in Anbar province who are working with American and Iraqi forces to combat al-Qaeda. For the first time, we visited Iraqi and American forces deployed in a joint security station in Baghdad -- an integral part of the new strategy. We held a news conference to discuss what we saw: positive signs, underreported in the United States, that are reason for cautious optimism.

I observed that our delegation "stopped at a local market, where we spent well over an hour, shopping and talking with the local people, getting their views and ideas about different issues of the day." Markets in Baghdad have faced devastating terrorist attacks. A car bombing at Shorja in February, for example, killed 137 people. Today the market still faces occasional sniper attacks, but it is safer than it used to be. One innovation of the new strategy is closing markets to vehicles, thereby precluding car bombs that kill so many and garner so much media attention. Petraeus understandably wanted us to see this development.

I went to Iraq to gain a firsthand view of the progress in this difficult war, not to celebrate any victories. No one has been more critical of sunny progress reports that defied realities in Iraq. In 2003, after my first visit, I argued for more troops to provide the security necessary for political development. I disagreed with statements characterizing the insurgency as a "few dead-enders" or being in its "last throes." I repeatedly criticized the previous search-and-destroy strategy and argued for a counterinsurgency approach: separating the reconcilable population from the irreconcilable and creating enough security to facilitate the political and economic solutions that are the only way to defeat insurgents. This is exactly the course that Petraeus and the brave men and women of the American military are pursuing.

The new political-military strategy is beginning to show results. But most Americans are not aware because much of the media are not reporting it or devote far more attention to car bombs and mortar attacks that reveal little about the strategic direction of the war. I am not saying that bad news should not be reported or that horrific terrorist attacks are not newsworthy. But news coverage should also include evidence of progress. Whether Americans choose to support or oppose our efforts in Iraq, I hope they could make their decision based on as complete a picture of the situation in Iraq as is possible to report. A few examples:


· Sunni sheikhs in Anbar are now fighting al-Qaeda. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki visited Anbar's capital, Ramadi, to meet with Sunni tribal leaders. The newly proposed de-Baathification legislation grew out of that meeting. Police recruitment in Ramadi has increased dramatically over the past four months.


· More than 50 joint U.S.-Iraqi stations have been established in Baghdad. Regular patrols establish connections with the surrounding neighborhood, resulting in a significant increase in security and actionable intelligence.


· Extremist Shiite militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr is in hiding, his followers are not contesting American forces, sectarian violence has dropped in Baghdad and we are working with the Shiite mayor of Sadr City.


· Iraqi army and police forces are increasingly fighting on their own and with American forces, and their size and capability are growing. Iraqi army and police casualties have increased because they are fighting more.

Despite these welcome developments, we should have no illusions. This progress is not determinative. It is simply encouraging. We have a long, tough road ahead in Iraq. But for the first time since 2003, we have the right strategy. In Petraeus, we have a military professional who literally wrote the book on fighting this kind of war. And we will have the right mix and number of forces.

There is no guarantee that we will succeed, but we must try. As every sensible observer has concluded, the consequences of failure in Iraq are so grave and so threatening for the region, and to the security of the United States, that to refuse to give Petraeus's plan a chance to succeed would constitute a tragic failure of American resolve. I hope those who cite the Iraq Study Group's conclusions note that James Baker wrote on this page last week that we must have bipartisan support for giving the new strategy time to succeed. This is not a moment for partisan gamesmanship or for one-sided reporting. The stakes are just too high.
SOURCE: WASHINGTON POST
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 10:22 am
Foxfyre wrote:
The members who cherry picked the phrases "McCain misspoke" from the posted articles evidentally did not read the articles.


Do you a different report then posted here? (Nota bene the date/time!)

blueflame1 wrote:
McCain says he misspoke in upbeat Baghdad comments
Fri Apr 6, 2007 5:19PM EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. Senator John McCain said in an interview to be broadcast on Sunday he misspoke in his recent upbeat comments about security in Baghdad, where he traveled under heavy military protection.


In the print edition, those two sentences which are in bold in your quotation, aren't, btw:
http://i15.tinypic.com/46ys8yq.jpg
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 10:31 am
Quote:
Spring break and bulletproof vests don't go well together. But for John McCain, it's just another day on the campaign trail.

The one-time GOP frontrunner proclaimed that there are neighborhoods in Baghdad where it's safe enough to go for a walk, claiming the media is not airing the real progress being made in Iraq, and he set out last week to prove his point.

He took a nice, safe walk through a marketplace just outside the fortress-like Green Zone, supposedly to buy some souvenirs. He was, of course, wearing his leisurely stroll body armor, standard equipment for even the safest neighborhoods in Baghdad. He also had a few friends along, 100 or so armed American soldiers, along with three Blackhawk helicopters and two Apache gunships.

If this is a safe neighborhood, wait until you see the bad side of town.

The next day we got to see just how safe this neighborhood really is, as 21 Shiite marketplace workers were kidnapped and executed, most likely to send a message to the Arizona senator that he should pick another market to shop for trinkets. You have to wonder if those people would still be alive if McCain had decided to go somewhere else for spring break.

What McCain proved was how far he has fallen in three short years, going from maverick to frontrunner to has-been.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 04:01 pm
Rich: McCain's marketplace visit indicative of a 'turning point' that will lead to withdrawal from Iraq RAW STORY
Published: Sunday April 8, 2007

New York Times columnist Frank Rich says in his Sunday editorial, that Sen. John McCain's (R-AZ) Baghdad marketplace photo op was not merely indicative of a flagging presidential campaign, but may also be emblematic of the inevitable withdrawal by the US from Iraq.

"In retrospect, his disastrous trip may be less significant as yet another downturn in a faltering presidential candidacy than as a turning point in hastening the inevitable American exit from Iraq," writes Rich.

McCain is a genuine war hero, says Rich, and by participating in a "embarrassing propaganda stunt" he has hurt "lesser Washington mortals who still claim that the 'surge' can bring 'victory' in Iraq" more than he has damaged himself.

"Bush or anyone else who sees progress in the surge is correct only in the most literal and temporary sense," continues Rich. "Yes, an influx of American troops is depressing some Baghdad violence. But any falloff in the capital is being offset by increased violence in the rest of the country; the civilian death toll rose 15 percent from February to March. Mosul, which was supposedly secured in 2003 by the current American commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, is now a safe haven for terrorists, according to an Iraqi government spokesman. The once-pacified Tal Afar, which Bush declared 'a free city that gives reason for hope for a free Iraq' in 2006, is a cauldron of bloodshed."

Excerpts follow:

#
It can't be lost on those dwindling die-hards, particularly those on the 2008 ballot, that if defending the indefensible can reduce even a politician of McCain's heroic stature to that of Dukakis-in-the-tank, they have nowhere to go but down. They'll cut and run soon enough. For starters, just watch as McCain's GOP presidential rivals add more caveats to their support for the administration's Iraq policy. Already, in a Tuesday interview on "Good Morning America," Mitt Romney inched toward concrete "timetables and milestones" for Iraq, with the nonsensical proviso they shouldn't be published "for the enemy."

As if to confirm we're in the last throes, President Bush threw any remaining caution to the winds during his news conference in the Rose Garden that same morning. Almost everything he said was patently misleading or an outright lie, a sure sign of a leader so entombed in his bunker (he couldn't even emerge for the Washington Nationals' ceremonial first pitch last week) that he feels he has nothing left to lose.

....

If Baghdad isn't going to repeat Tal Afar's history, we will have to send many more American troops than promised and keep them there until al-Maliki presides over a stable coalition government providing its own security. Hell is more likely to freeze over first. Yet if American troops don't start to leave far sooner than that -- by the beginning of next year, according to the retired general and sometime White House consultant Barry McCaffrey -- the American Army will start to unravel. The National Guard, whose own new involuntary deployments to Iraq were uncovered last week by NBC News, can't ride to the rescue indefinitely.

#
TIMES SELECT SUBSCRIBERS CAN READ THE FULL FRANK RICH COLUMN HERE
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Rich_McCains_marketplace_visit_indicative_of_0408.html
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 09:22 am
Republican darkhorse: America should engage Iran link
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 09:45 am
It´s a good thing I wrote off McCain a long time ago. He only goes downhill - faster and faster: a loser. He´s only that far = from the sewer.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 11:45 am
Giuliani retains balls re abortion
Film at 11
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:22 pm
Good for him. I believe this will be a net positive for him. The man has a conscience of his own and the temerity to follow it. This is rare in a Presidential candidate, and difficult to fake.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:27 pm
It is always instructive too when some prefer the slant some use to say what a politician means instead of looking to the politician's own words for what he means. Too many sins of omission are committed by plucking what appears to be a damning quote out of context when it is not damning at all when placed into context.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:27 pm
I dunno. This is hot off of his "sure, Confederate flag, what's the big deal, fly it if you want*" performance in Montgomery.

*paraphrase.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 01:21 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The War You're Not Reading About
By John McCain
Sunday, April 8, 2007; Page B07

[..] We held a news conference to discuss what we saw: positive signs, underreported in the United States, that are reason for cautious optimism.

[..] The new political-military strategy is beginning to show results. But most Americans are not aware because much of the media are not reporting it or devote far more attention to car bombs and mortar attacks that reveal little about the strategic direction of the war.

OK, so what example did McCain bring?

Quote:
[..] · Extremist Shiite militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr is in hiding, his followers are not contesting American forces

Oh dear.. front page news two days later:

Quote:
Moqtada rallies Shia to demand withdrawal of foreign troops

Tuesday April 10, 2007

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2007/04/10/muq372.jpg
Iraqi Shias loyal to the radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr rally in Najaf to call for the withdrawal of US troops on the fourth anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. Photograph: Hadi Mizban/AP

Wrapped in the Iraqi flag and chanting anti-American slogans, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Shia snaked into the holy city of Najaf yesterday for a protest rally to mark the fourth anniversary of the toppling of Saddam Hussein and to demand the ejection from Iraq of US and British troops.

The huge procession of mainly men and young boys had braved the roads from Baghdad - and towns across southern Iraq - to march from the holy city of Kufa to Najaf, one of Shia Islam's most sacred sites. Flanked by hundreds of Iraqi police, they shouted "Yes! Yes! Iraq. No! No! America" amid a sea of banners and Iraqi flags. "We were liberated from Saddam. Now we need to be liberated again," read one placard. "Stop the suffering, Americans leave now," demanded another.

The march was a show of strength by the powerful Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, who had called for a peaceful mass protest to express opposition to "Iraq's occupiers". Ali Hussein, a member of Mr Sadr's al-Mahdi militia from Baghdad, said that about 1m-1.5 million supporters of Mr Sadr had taken part, though police estimates gave a figure of less than a million. [..]

That's one example from McCain's list blown to pieces, within just two days - and I think this is fairly representative of the degree of delusion among the Iraq hawks.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 01:28 pm
nimh wrote:
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2007/04/10/muq372.jpg
Iraqi Shias loyal to the radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr rally in Najaf to call for the withdrawal of US troops on the fourth anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. Photograph: Hadi Mizban/AP
If that's the way all the protests were being carried out; we would agree that the war was a complete success, no?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 02:53 pm
Saddam would have dropped a big ol' bomb on that crowd.

Must suck for them to be able to protest openly like that now. Bet they miss the good old days, huh?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 03:20 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
If that's the way all the protests were being carried out; we would agree that the war was a complete success, no?

I get your point, and yeah, its great that a million-strong protest could happen like that, so.. brownie point for the original overthrow of Saddam.

As far as anything that was done in the three years since is concerned, however, yeah, I suppose there's nothing like a million angry men demanding you leave to show off just how successful you're being huh?
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 04:34 pm
How Orwellian for those who support Bushie's slaughter in Iraq to take credit for peaceful demonstrations. Forget Rummy shaking Saddam's hand in the 80s. Bushies made him and Bushies broke him. All for fun and profit of a few American corporations. Forget the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and the great destruction of that country. Forget coalition casualties. Most of all forget one of the most cowardly attacks in history, Shock&Awe, by the world's only Superpower against a weak nation Hans Blix was disarming. Forget there were families on the ground as America watched bombs bursting in air over Baghdad. Pass the popcorn. Remember how Bushie created a huge peaceful but very anti-American protest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H38Lfv3ZU6M&mode=related&search=
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 05:39 pm
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
If that's the way all the protests were being carried out; we would agree that the war was a complete success, no?

I get your point, and yeah, its great that a million-strong protest could happen like that, so.. brownie point for the original overthrow of Saddam.
Starting from there then; what would YOU have done so differently? Say you sent sufficient troops to protect the museums and what not, had sufficient oversight to eliminate the prison abuses and weren't building permanent bases... would the landscape really look any different right now? Would the Sunnis and Shia not still be duking it out? Would Al Qaeda not still be trying to stir the ****? After 4 years would the Iraqi citizens not have begun to blame the Superpower that they imagine has sufficient force to quell the uprisings? Could any overthrow of Saddam's brutal suppression if favor "No Iron Fist" really have gone much smoother? Or are we witnessing the inevitable growing pains of a people who have for the very first time a chance to win control of their own country in the power vacuum inevitably created by such an overthrow?

I'll accept that things may turn out worse for the Iraqis, but I'll give no ear to arguments they were "better off before." Degrees of near total hell are not measured in terms of "better." 1,000,000 angry men peacefully protesting is a significant demonstration of progress compared to any time under Saddam's oppression.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 12:33 pm
75,000 Voter Registration Cards Found in Trash Bin in Atlanta

ATLANTA (AP) -- The Georgia Secretary of State's office has begun an investigation into who threw more than 75,000 Fulton County voter registration cards into a trash bin.

The cards contained a voter's full name, address and Social Security number. The office says a random sampling showed many of the cards were for active voters.

In a statement, Secretary of State Karen Handel said the finding "represents a significant and serious breach of the personal information of Fulton County voters and an outrageous violation of the trust and integrity of Fulton County's elections."

After getting a call from a resident, officials with Handel's office found more than 30 boxes of voter registration application cards, precinct cards and other documents Monday in a construction trash bin at Atlanta Technical College in southwest Atlanta.

Handel has called in the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the county solicitor general's office to investigate and says she will audit the county elections office.

Handel says she also has asked the County Commission to warn voters that their personal information may have been exposed.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 01:09 pm
Fair voting anyone? What a great democracy we support and love!
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2007 11:30 am
Dropping this off for me and Cyclo to follow:

How anybody can make something of this is completely beyond me. We'll see what happens...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2007 11:40 am
Yeah, well, you personally aren't a homophobe. But many supporters of your political party are. That's why something will be made of it.

Giuliani is a time bomb! He sucks up money that could be going to someone else, but he isn't a Conservative and doesn't support traditional values. Where the hell is he going to get votes from?

I see supporting his candidacy as beating the '9/11' drum and little else. I would - have, actually - bet significant amounts of money that he will not get the nod.

Personally I find the fact that he doesn't know how much a gallon of milk costs to be worse than the dress, but that's me...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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