A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

Well, soz' quote appears likely to impact my statement.

I'll have to read what he's been saying.

After review, I see that Rudy's gay marriage position is as dismal as Obama's.

Yeah.

Again, I'd definitely prefer that Obama were pro-gay marriage, in the right-thing-to-do sense. (As differentiated from the viable-candidate sense.) He's said that he may well change his mind, and I hope he does.

The President doesn't get to make those kinds of decisions though. Congress does so far as any federal mandate goes and so far they have been unwilling to make it a federal issue one way or the other. So it still rests with the states It is always a shame when a single issue is the basis for a candidacy don't you think? When it is, it requires everybody to be in lockstep or a huge chunk of the constituency is going to be alienated on just about every issue.

Giuliani woos conservatives in 2008 run

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani on Friday launched a hard-sell effort to woo conservatives to his 2008 White House run, admitting he did not see "eye to eye" with them on some social issues.

Giuliani told activists he was part of the Republican "revolution" wrought by conservative hero, former president Ronald Reagan, despite conventional wisdom that some past liberal stands will alienate the party's grass roots.

But he faced a strong challenge for Reagan's legacy from former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, who shrugged off claims he has ditched moderate positions, by pledging to lead a new conservative coalition.

Giuliani, 62, early Republican frontrunner, often dubbed "America's mayor" for his leadership role after the September 11, 2001 attacks, touted his record of tax cuts but avoided divisive issues like abortion and gun control.

"We don't all see eye to eye on everything," Giuliani told the annual Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC).

"You and I have a lot of common beliefs that are the same, but we have some that are different," he told several thousand activists, comparing such disagreements to different perspectives within a marriage.

In a politely received speech, Giuliani drew parallels between the kind of leadership which supporters say Reagan showed in ending the Cold War, and the credentials needed in the next president in a battle against Islamic extremism.

"We want peace, that was our desire, that was the desire of Ronald Reagan confronting communism," Giuliani said.

"This war is over when they stop planning to come here and kill us ... we need an American president that understands the necessity of being on offense."

Some believe Romney, 59, may face a tough job winning over Christian conservative voters as a Mormon.

"Thirty years ago, in challenging times, a great coalition was forged in these halls. Today, we face a new generation of challenges," Romney said.

"If we in this room lock our arms together, we can forge the political will to rebuild our military might ... if we in this room lift up our eyes, we will lift the spirit of the nation," he said.

Senator John McCain (news, bio, voting record), a conservative who nevertheless has an uneasy relationship with the conservative right, was the only major Republican candidate to snub the key annual gathering.

President George W. Bush and master political strategist Karl Rove famously used the core Christian conservative wing of the Republican Party to build a power base that took Bush to two terms in the White House.

But this year, many activists seem uneasy, that with Bush set to leave the White House in early 2009, there is no obvious successor as keeper of the conservative flame.

Giuliani leads most polls of likely Republican voters in the 2008 race, 10 months ahead of first nominating contests which will decide who challenges the Democrats for the White House.

But his campaign must find a way to attract conservatives in states such as New Hampshire, Iowa and South Carolina which hold the key to the nomination.

With a look at a potential national race, the former New York mayor also took a swipe at Democratic Party frontrunner Senator Hillary Clinton's refusal to admit her 2002 Senate vote to authorize war with Iraq was wrong.

"I made mistakes, I am willing to admit them and apologize for them," said Giuliani.

Senator Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record), a candidate popular with the Christian right, but not thought to have great wider appeal, meanwhile offered a clarion call for the role of religious faith in public life.

Ex-Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a longshot, earlier made his own pitch for the conservative vote, and took a shot at candidates, like Romney.

Some candidates "have had so many road-to-Damascus experiences, they have had a Syrian camel drive," Huckabee quipped, laying out a tough-on-terror, anti-abortion, low-tax conservative agenda.

"If celebrity and money were the criteria for being president of the United States, then Paris Hilton might be the president," he joked, in an apparent swipe at the "rock star" Democratic race led by Clinton and Illinois Senator Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record).

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Still, wow.

And, Romney talks like a neo-Hitler...

It matters to me what the man thinks.

It does promise to be an interesting (if protracted) campaign for the next Presidency. The shaking out of the candidates in both parties will likely produce more than a few surprises on both sides. I suspect that predictions made based on current polls about individual candidates are likely to be wrong.

I was amused by the Guardian article posted on the previous page by Blatham. Evidently they find Guilani insufficiently experienced for the job. Compared to what??? Two terms as Governor of Arkansas?? One as Senator from New York?? One as Senator from Tennessee?? A couple of years in the Illinois State Legislature and two as Senator from that State?? Overall the article was amateurish and superficial - despite the puffed up self importance it exuded. A more astute analyst would have noted the relatively poor track record of former members of the Senate in winning Presidential elections during the last century or so.

Me too. Especially want to be able to trust a person to be true to what he thinks and not change spots according to every blip in the polls. I do think Giuliani is not one to change his spots easily due to political expediency.

If gay marriage is the single most important issue to somebody, that person will probably support the candidate who promises to act as the person prefers on that issue. I know that it is an important issue for you because you've said so, but my point was that we're probably not going to find any candidate ever who agrees with us on every issue. So you pick the candidate who is closest to your most important personal values and the deal breakers should be mostly in those areas where it will matter what the President's personal preferences or views are.

I probably said that really badly. But I hope you understand my point.

Hi george.

I really think a viable Rudy Giuliani in the GOP has the foundations of the Democrat party shaking.

It changes everything.

Hi george.

I really think a viable Rudy Giuliani in the GOP has the foundations of the Democrat party shaking.

It changes everything.

Who's the Boogeyman, now?

Fox--

I understood your point--but it seemed to cast me incorrectly. Gay marriage isn't that big an issue for me--I just wind up talking about it alot because the relationship with human rights and equality -- Your question: "It is always a shame when a single issue is the basis for a candidacy don't you think?" I didn't know quite why you said that.

No prob--just wanted to clarify.

It was not intended as a personal aspersion if that is how it came across, and if it did come across that way, I apologize. I only used gay marriage as an example because you and Soz were talking about that particular issue. I could have easily used things like stem cell research or gun control or the death penalty or abortion or any of the many other sensitive and hot button issues as the analogy.

I think we have to keep beating the drum that single issues are not where the focus should be and that we're unlikely to ever find a candidate who will support every single issue that is important to us.
'
It was my way of saying, again probably badly, that its okay if Giuliani doesn't support gay marriage or does support gun control more than I would prefer or does advocate something that somebody else wishes was different. We have to decide what will and will not be the deal breakers and get behind our candidate.

So far I think the anti-Giuliani camp has not been effective in making him an unsuitable candidate in the eyes of his supporters.

Exactly where did you read that?

Walter, Here is the excerpt from the Guardian hit piece to which I referred -





I generally agree. However it is still very early in the process. The two nomination campaigns have a long way to go, and the unfolding results of each influence the dynamic in the other. Hard to forecast accurately.

Well, I think it depends on whom you mean with "they" - Pilkington refers, as far as I get it [I'm neither a BE nor an AE native speaker], to the in the following sequences quoted groups/persons.

I think his use of the phrase "relative lack of experience" is an unambiguous reference to a comparison with the other candidates -- even in Britain and Australia.

The article was pretentious, biased against Guilani, and involved sloppy, amateurish analysis.

George, are you actually arguing that he DOESN'T have a relative lack of experience? He's been a mayor. That's it.

Even Obama has more years of experience in elected office -- 8 years, not 2 as you stated, in the Illinois Senate, and will have 4 years as a U.S. Senator by the time the election rolls around. Rudy doesn't hold elected office now, hasn't since 2001. He was mayor for 7 years. So as of now, Obama has 10 years' experience in elected office to Rudy's 7 -- as of election day, that will be 12 to 7.

And Obama is about the least experienced of the Democratic and Republican contenders.

Rudy, however, has effectively managed a city with population and an economy exceeding that of Arkansas or many countries for that matter. That can't be ignored.

Administrating (mayor of huge metropolis, Gov, ) is in league with the Presidency, whereas preening and backbiting (Senator) is not.

wikilashia

I kinda like Rudi.