A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

In my book he is like a third party candidate and the Right gets to choose between that and losing. Ideal situation if you ask me.

Romney No Ronald Reagan

INTENSIVE CARE FOR ROMNEYCARE
When then-Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney introduced a universal health-insurance plan last year, it was widely acclaimed. But less than a year after its passage, RomneyCare is in the intensive care unit, says Sally C. Pipes, president and CEO of the Pacific Research Institute.

The Symbolism of Giuliani and McCain

Why does a hawkish and fiscally conservative McCain engender ambivalence, and even hostility among California Republicans, whereas Giuliani receives a hero's welcome with the poll numbers to match?

I attempt to answer that question in an article at TCS Daily.

Ultimately I think it boils down to this:

As Mayor of New York, Giuliani symbolized a no-nonsense approach to dealing with crime and corruption. He was the tough good guy who took on the mob as an attorney and cleaned up New York as Mayor. September 11 cemented this image and elevated Giuliani to the truly national stage. He became "America's Mayor" and a symbol of American resolve. Republicans love this image, and Giuliani's perceived toughness seems to be eclipsing his record of social liberalism.

In contrast, McCain elevated himself to the national stage as a "maverick" Senator, known for breaking with his party. For many GOP primary voters, the image of McCain the moderate eclipses McCain's conservative voting record, and even his military heroism. In two pivotal strokes, many party stalwarts believe that McCain put himself above his party, and accordingly at odds with them. The first is McCain-Feingold, which most GOP activists see as simultaneously assaulting free speech, hurting the party's financing, and empowering liberal "527" groups like MoveOn.org. The second is the "Gang of 14" in which McCain led a group of seven Republican and seven Democrat senators to work out a compromise and prevent Senate Republicans from using the "nuclear option" to eliminate the Democrats' ability to filibuster judicial nominees. In spite of the fact that both conservative-favored John Roberts and Samuel Alito were confirmed as Supreme Court Justices after the McCain-led "Gang of 14" incident, many see McCain's undermining of the GOP majority as evidence of his unreliability.

Given their disparate ascents to the national stage, Giuliani's enduring image is more conservative than McCain's. At the risk of oversimplifying, it is perhaps fair to say that Giuliani's image is loudly conservative and quietly moderate, whereas McCain's image is loudly moderate and quietly conservative. These disparate images have taken hold among California Republicans, and Giuliani's image is blowing McCain's out of the water.

JPB hit the nail on the head. I too cared not a bit who Clinton slept with. I did care that the leader of our land disobeyed a Supreme Court order and lied to a grand jury about it. Giuliani won't suffer the same blowback, because he won't tell ridiculous lies. I agree that the GOP doesn't want him... but suspect they may be forced to admit he's there only hope by the time the day arrives. Unless something changes; no Bush clone has a shot and that would include Romney. McCain appears unlikely to regain his popularity, because of his flip-flopping. You here Liberals who've disowned him for his views on Abortion even as Republicans disown him for his views on Abortion. Some fences can't be straddled. He's given up the only cards that could get him forgiven for his War stance, and hasn't even succeeded in convincing the people he's pandering to. For now; that leaves Rudy... who'll hit you with "sorry you disagree, but that's how I feel... let's focus on what we can agree on". In my book he is like a third party candidate and the Right gets to choose between that and losing. Ideal situation if you ask me.

Quote:

In my book he is like a third party candidate and the Right gets to choose between that and losing. Ideal situation if you ask me.

Ideal for Obama, definitely.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

In my book he is like a third party candidate and the Right gets to choose between that and losing. Ideal situation if you ask me.

Ideal for Obama, definitely.

Cycloptichorn

Not necessarily. I think the Left would thoroughly defeat a Rightwing nut, but a moderate may prove more difficult in the General. What it may do for Obama is demonstrate that Giuliani is close enough that Hillary can't win... which could force them to defer to the more charismatic Obama. The Democrat "Machine" would probably be more comfortable with Clinton... but ultimately they want a win as a badly as the GOP.

Obama and Giuliani generate a LOT of crossover talk. Not so much, the other players.

We'll see, cyclo.

I've heard this before....

I hate to say it--but you and your team of analysts are severely overconfident. Think about how most people will react if Hillary Clinton is the nominee.

A multitude of Democrats--Indies, especially--would do anything to prevent that.

She would be destroyed in a general election.

I don't think that Obama's crossover appeal is as big as hyped either (my Conservative family nonwithstanding). The only thing he has going for him in this respect is the massive level of dissatisfaction amongst Republicans with their leadership's ineptitude.

I felt the same way a few years ago. I think his time has passed, however, and I no longer see him as someone who will push for social causes. His pandering might be simply that, but whatever support I would have given him in the past is gone.

JPB wrote:

I felt the same way a few years ago. I think his time has passed, however, and I no longer see him as someone who will push for social causes. His pandering might be simply that, but whatever support I would have given him in the past is gone.

Sorry for quoting myself, but I would qualify this by saying that if the general election comes down to McCain vs Hillary, then McCain would have my complete support.

Many who are marginally Left are so because of Abortion and Gay rights. Giuliani takes that out of the equation.

Some talking head this morning--I failed to get the name--cited the poll and specualated that all the constant, unrelenting, excessive, and hateful criticisms and bashing of GWB has hardened the base against character assassination and will make it more difficult for the Left to destroy any 2008 contenders.

Foxfyre wrote:

Some talking head this morning--I failed to get the name--cited the poll and specualated that all the constant, unrelenting, excessive, and hateful criticisms and bashing of GWB has hardened the base against character assassination and will make it more difficult for the Left to destroy any 2008 contenders.

Oh, so THAT is what the whole episode with Giuliani amounts to with you, isn't it? The Left destroying contenders-namely, Giuliani.

Forget completely what the man did to his wife, in public, over the course of a year. Forget the vicious and calculated public destruction of the mother of his children. That is not important, and that will not be evaluated. All that Foxfyre and her ilk will be posting on from now on will be how they must not let poor Rudy be "smeared" by the Left. What Rudy actually did must not be mentioned, except to try to make it appear that Rudy is being somehow victimized.