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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

Forums: Mccain, Republicans, Giuliani, Politics, Republican Party
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 08:35 am
I read the following and McCain immediately came to mind.


"Heroes are created by popular demand, sometimes out of the scantiest materials, or none at all."
Gerald W. Johnson
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 09:35 am
Advocate wrote:
I read the following and McCain immediately came to mind.


"Heroes are created by popular demand, sometimes out of the scantiest materials, or none at all."
Gerald W. Johnson


That looks pretty inaccurate and unfair to me, advocate. By any normal or reasonable understanding of words like "hero", McCain fits the bill. This reference to his torture and five year incarceration is the real thing.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 09:42 am
blatham wrote:
Advocate wrote:
I read the following and McCain immediately came to mind.


"Heroes are created by popular demand, sometimes out of the scantiest materials, or none at all."
Gerald W. Johnson


That looks pretty inaccurate and unfair to me, advocate. By any normal or reasonable understanding of words like "hero", McCain fits the bill. This reference to his torture and five year incarceration is the real thing.



As far as the incarceration goes, that is what happens in war. How does that make him a hero? Regarding the alleged torture, he was a victim, not a hero. McCain admits that he spilled his guts early on.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 10:53 am
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 11:30 am
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 11:31 am
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 01:26 pm
ma porsche wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered heroes to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.


Most people refuse to see the downside to the US torture of prisoners; it's not about our "security." It does exactly the opposite.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:06 pm
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:11 pm
How about Iraqis tortured by Americans in Iraq? Are those Iraqis heros?

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2008/02/gallery_abu_ghraib?slide=1&slideView=5
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:19 pm
xingu wrote:
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?


Earlier, maporsche, wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 05:11 pm
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


I think that a hero should be more distinguished in his or her service than the person you describe in the last paragraph.

Main Entry: he·ro
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'hir-(")O, 'he-(")rO
Inflected Form(s): plural heroes
Etymology: Latin heros, from Greek herOs
1 a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one that shows great courage
2 a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3 plural usually heros : SUBMARINE 2
4 : an object of extreme admiration and devotion : IDOL

--Merriam-Webster
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 05:45 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
xingu wrote:
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?


Earlier, maporsche, wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.


Yeah, he has a reading problem.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:05 pm
So McCain had a bit of a senior moment on the trail the other day - was he spirited, dispirited - a liberal, conservative, liberal conservative Republican, what was that? Video with the original footage here.

And the Mac's conservative detractors are having some fun with that.. click the image for video.


http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4779/mccainpsychug9.png
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:14 pm
nimh wrote:
And the Mac's conservative detractors are having some fun with that.. click the image for video.


All of his detractors are having some fun with that, nimh.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:17 pm
maporsche wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
xingu wrote:
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?


Earlier, maporsche, wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.


Yeah, he has a reading problem.


No, not a reading problem, I just don't go back and read all the posts.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:18 pm
So can I assume you believe those Iraqis tortured by us Americans are a great as heros as John McCain?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:19 pm
xingu wrote:
So can I assume you believe those Iraqis tortured by us Americans are a great as heros as John McCain?


No ... I'm thinking reading problem.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:26 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
And the Mac's conservative detractors are having some fun with that.. click the image for video.


All of his detractors are having some fun with that, nimh.


Fair enough Smile
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:27 pm
Quote:
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 07:37 pm
xingu wrote:
So can I assume you believe those Iraqis tortured by us Americans are a great as heros as John McCain?



Definitely a reading problem. It's been posted twice, once by me and once by Tico. For my answer step back about 8 posts.
0 Replies
 
 

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