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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 08:35 am
I read the following and McCain immediately came to mind.


"Heroes are created by popular demand, sometimes out of the scantiest materials, or none at all."
Gerald W. Johnson
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 09:35 am
Advocate wrote:
I read the following and McCain immediately came to mind.


"Heroes are created by popular demand, sometimes out of the scantiest materials, or none at all."
Gerald W. Johnson


That looks pretty inaccurate and unfair to me, advocate. By any normal or reasonable understanding of words like "hero", McCain fits the bill. This reference to his torture and five year incarceration is the real thing.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 09:42 am
blatham wrote:
Advocate wrote:
I read the following and McCain immediately came to mind.


"Heroes are created by popular demand, sometimes out of the scantiest materials, or none at all."
Gerald W. Johnson


That looks pretty inaccurate and unfair to me, advocate. By any normal or reasonable understanding of words like "hero", McCain fits the bill. This reference to his torture and five year incarceration is the real thing.



As far as the incarceration goes, that is what happens in war. How does that make him a hero? Regarding the alleged torture, he was a victim, not a hero. McCain admits that he spilled his guts early on.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 10:53 am
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 11:30 am
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 11:31 am
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 01:26 pm
ma porsche wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered heroes to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.


Most people refuse to see the downside to the US torture of prisoners; it's not about our "security." It does exactly the opposite.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:06 pm
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:11 pm
How about Iraqis tortured by Americans in Iraq? Are those Iraqis heros?

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2008/02/gallery_abu_ghraib?slide=1&slideView=5
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:19 pm
xingu wrote:
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?


Earlier, maporsche, wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 05:11 pm
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


I think that a hero should be more distinguished in his or her service than the person you describe in the last paragraph.

Main Entry: he·ro
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'hir-(")O, 'he-(")rO
Inflected Form(s): plural heroes
Etymology: Latin heros, from Greek herOs
1 a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one that shows great courage
2 a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3 plural usually heros : SUBMARINE 2
4 : an object of extreme admiration and devotion : IDOL

--Merriam-Webster
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 05:45 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
xingu wrote:
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?


Earlier, maporsche, wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.


Yeah, he has a reading problem.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:05 pm
So McCain had a bit of a senior moment on the trail the other day - was he spirited, dispirited - a liberal, conservative, liberal conservative Republican, what was that? Video with the original footage here.

And the Mac's conservative detractors are having some fun with that.. click the image for video.


http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4779/mccainpsychug9.png
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:14 pm
nimh wrote:
And the Mac's conservative detractors are having some fun with that.. click the image for video.


All of his detractors are having some fun with that, nimh.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:17 pm
maporsche wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
xingu wrote:
maporsche wrote:
xingu wrote:
Are we to suppose that every person who was captured and tortured in all wars are heros?


As a general statement I would assume you would suppose that.

There would be a few cases where I'm sure where this wouldn't apply (such as if the person raped a child and the other side captured/tortured him because of it).

But someone like McCain, who served honorably AND was captured/tortured, are heros.


So all Nazi soldiers who served honorably for their country in WW II, were captured by the Soviets and tortured are heros?

Or does that only apply to Americans?


Earlier, maporsche, wrote:
Interestingly, those who WE are torturing in Gitmo are considered hereos to their people back home.

Another reason why we should not be torturing people.


Yeah, he has a reading problem.


No, not a reading problem, I just don't go back and read all the posts.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:18 pm
So can I assume you believe those Iraqis tortured by us Americans are a great as heros as John McCain?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:19 pm
xingu wrote:
So can I assume you believe those Iraqis tortured by us Americans are a great as heros as John McCain?


No ... I'm thinking reading problem.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:26 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
And the Mac's conservative detractors are having some fun with that.. click the image for video.


All of his detractors are having some fun with that, nimh.


Fair enough Smile
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 06:27 pm
Quote:
Huckabee supporters aren't slowing down in Texas

Dallas Morning News
February 19, 2008

AUSTIN ?- Here was Huck's Army, or at least a remnant of it, defiantly drawing the line in the sand.

"This is Texas," declared Rick Green, a Mike Huckabee supporter. "In Texas, we don't cut and run. In Texas, we don't give up and go home before the fight is over."

About a dozen Huckabee backers on Monday stood midway between the Capitol and the Governor's Mansion ?- one of four such events in the state ?- to remind voters that despite the political arithmetic, the race for the Republican nomination isn't over.
Wayne Slater

John McCain has a sizable lead in delegates and is reaping a tidal wave of endorsements from establishment figures in the party eager to assert the Arizona senator's conservative credentials.

On Monday morning, former President George Bush publicly endorsed Mr. McCain. That afternoon, Huckabee supporters in four cities, including Dallas, were out in force.

"We disagree with having our elected officials tell us what we are supposed to do," said Rob Hurlburt, a Christian-software maker in Austin, who promised "one heck of a grass-roots campaign."

"We're only down four points right now in Texas," he said. "We're going to take Texas and send a message to the rest of the country that the debate is not over."

The fight underscores a sharp division within the GOP between social conservatives and economic conservatives who have yet to reconcile differences over who should be the party nominee.

Religious conservatives have been at the heart of Mr. Huckabee's political base. Evangelicals were key to Mr. Huckabee's early win in Iowa and have been a primary source of support since then.

Although the Huckabee camp has worked to define its candidate more broadly as a tax-cutting economic populist, Monday's supporters made it clear why they were there.

"Protecting life and protecting the family," said the Rev. Steve Washburn, pastor of First Baptist Church of Pflugerville. "We are to vote for the candidate who will best champion this cause of the Lord, this moral cause."

Brent Bullock, who works for a Christian nonprofit group, warned of corrosive "secular humanism and socialist ideologies."

As he spoke, the Austin Duck Tour ?- a large open-air bus-like vehicle carrying tourists ?- pulled up in front of the Governor's Mansion.

None of the tourists looked at the mansion. They were all looking at the Huckabee supporters on the sidewalk, circled by TV cameras.

"Is this the kind of change Texas wants?" said Mr. Bullock, soldiering on about the liberalizing tendencies of moderate government.

Aboard the Duck Tour, the driver signaled riders to prepare their plastic duck calls.

"Ready … aim … fire!" he said.

"Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack!" came the sound from the bus.

Mr. Hurlburt shrugged as the bus drove away. "The full Austin experience," he said.

A recent poll shows that Mr. Huckabee's strongest support comes from Texas Republicans who consider themselves "very conservative" and identify themselves as religious conservatives. Mr. McCain does better among independents and moderates in the party.

Mr. Green, a former legislator who works with the Aledo-based group WallBuilders, recalled how in 1976, insurgent Texas Republicans voted for Ronald Reagan even though the party establishment was aligned with incumbent Gerald Ford.

"I believe today, 32 years later in 2008, we are in a very similar situation," Mr. Green said. "They're telling us we don't get a voice in this thing. They're telling us we need to fall in line and obey the commands of the elite."

A reporter asked whether Huckabee supporters would stay home if Mr. McCain ultimately wins the nomination.

"That time," he said, "has not come."
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 07:37 pm
xingu wrote:
So can I assume you believe those Iraqis tortured by us Americans are a great as heros as John McCain?



Definitely a reading problem. It's been posted twice, once by me and once by Tico. For my answer step back about 8 posts.
0 Replies
 
 

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