A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

Finn dAbuzz, I have listened to these candidates very closely throughout this process and I highly disagree about your character judgement. I think he has you fooled, as he has done lots of people with his "straight talk". McCain has irritated me numerous times, and basically he strikes me as an arrogant man. Granted, I don't know him personally, so some of this is personal impression, and I could be wrong. However,I am convinced he will tell us what we want to hear and then he will do whatever he pleases in regard to a few things, such as campaign finance, immigration, the environment, energy, etc.

I support McCain over Romney for what I believe are two important reasons:

1) I think he has more character and political courage than Romney. Romney is, by all accounts, a very decent man and not only would I be fine with him being president, I support some of his positions over those of McCain, but he has never demonstrated the willingness to advance an idea he thought was best for the American people, even if by doing so he sustained political attacks and harm. In fact he did the opposite. I suppose his various conversions on key issues could be genuine, but he is a politician running for the most powerful office in the world. I'm afraid I'm just not going to give him the benefit of the doubt on his sincerity, when there is another candidate out there who, while by no means perfect, has demonstrated an ability and willingness to stand up for what he believes is right.

2) He has a chance to beat Obama or Clinton and Romney does not.

If you don't find him to be a better choice than Romney, by all means support Romney, Huckabee, Paul or a write-in. If you don't like any of the Republican candidates and don't wish to participate in the primary, then by all means don't. We can all agree however than the nominee will be either Romney or McCain. No one else has even a remote chance.

Both Romney or McCain will make better presidents than Clinton or Obama, and you only need to describe yourself as conservative for me to know that you are aware that this is true.

Knowing this, and knowing that this is going to be a close race whomever are the nominees, a decision to stay home and not vote for McCain, aside from expressing nothing more than petulance, will be a vote for Obama or Clinton.

I certainly hope that the whatever bad blood exists between Clinton and Obama and by extension Clinton Supporters and Obama Supporters lasts through the convention and into the general election. Clintonistas who will sit home rather than vote for Obama, and Obamaniacs who will prefer not to vote than vote for Clinton will, in effect, be voting for the Republican candidate.

You can be sure that Democratic strategists and supporters are hoping that you and people who think like you will stay home rather than cast a vote for McCain, because they know those are votes for their candidate. You will be doing precisely what they hope you do.

I certainly don't expect you and others who have serious concerns about McCain to flip a switch after the convention and become enthusiastic supporters. That would be nice, but not necessary, but I do expect you and people like you who believe that conservative values and positions offer the best future for Americans, and that the professed policies and positions of Clinton and Obama would be detrimental to the nation, to mutter a few choice swear words, hold your nose and vote for McCain.

He has an 81% rating as a conservative legislator. I have no doubt that somewhere in the 19 percentage points he didn't get are issues that you think are important. Understood, but there is no candidate who is running or who can win in November that gets a 100% rating. I wonder what Clinton's and Obama's conservative ratings are.

I think you misread what I wrote about what refusing to vote for McCain in the general election means for conservatives.

If you stay home and don't vote for McCain or, worse yet, vote for Obama or Clinton because you want McCain to lose, then I would say you are being petty and foolish and I will not apologize for that opinion.

If you stay home and don't vote for McCain or, worse yet, vote for Clinton or Obama because you want a Democrat to win, on the theory that they will run the country into the ground and set the stage for that 100% conservative candidate in 2012, then I will contend you are not a patriot and will not apologize for that opinion either.

The people who fall into the second category of McCain-Haters are not ideological purists they are self-absorbed charlatans. They are raising the possibility of this sort of perverted action to stir up controversy and improve their marketability - it's not a coincidence that this is only coming from Radio and TV pundits who like to feel they are the personifications of true conservatism.

The fact is that if McCain is elected president, the party will turn to the center, and hard conservatives will lose some of their power and influence. We can argue all day about whether or not this is a good thing, but don't kid yourself into thinking these people care about the purity of conservative ideals. It is the preservation of power and influence with which they are concerned.

I am not about to help the Democrats take control of the government when I truly believe they will screw things up in the next four years, just so I can see a 100% conservative positioned to occupy the oval office four or eight years from now. Especially not when I can get a 81% conservative whom I personally admire in there in 2009.

You make whatever decision you feel is right, but I do not disavow any of the opinions I've expressed here.

Finn dAbuzz, I have listened to these candidates very closely throughout this process and I highly disagree about your character judgement. I think he has you fooled, as he has done lots of people with his "straight talk". McCain has irritated me numerous times, and basically he strikes me as an arrogant man. Granted, I don't know him personally, so some of this is personal impression, and I could be wrong. I am convinced he will tell us what we want to hear and then he will do whatever he pleases in regard to a few things, such as campaign finance, immigration, the environment, energy, etc. I also do not trust him to make foreign policy decisions. I know this is rather different than many conservatives here on this forum, but he basically has the wrong solutions to the problems we have. Romney strikes me as far more intelligent and better understands the problems plus the correct solutions. I think McCain will continue to sell us down the river on lots of issues, although probably not as many as the Democrats would.

I will likely end up voting for McCain if he is nominated, but I would never select a nominee based on what their percieved chances are in the general, as that is simply too far into the future to accurately know for sure.

I hope you are right about McCain. I remain very unconvinced. Regardless of his ratings, he has been dead wrong on some important ones. And his conduct in the primaries was not the best in my opinion, but this is what I have come to expect out of McCain, and it is a big reason why I find it very difficult to support him. And I am also disppointed in Huckabee, I thought he was better than he turned out to be. Thompson, an admirable man, but got no traction. Even Ron Paul, I came to appreciate the guy's honesty and conduct, but he simply is too far wrong on a couple of issues.

okie

I respect your opinions, and most often agree with them, but I think you're wrong about John McCain. I don't think your feelings about him are outrageous, just inaccurate.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting you should refrain from criticizing McCain, and I'm not suggesting that you need to suck it up, shut up and throw your enthusiastic support behind him if he becomes the nominee.

What I am suggesting is that unless you believe he will make a worse president than Obama or Clinton, it is sensible to grit your teeth and vote for him in the general election, if he is the only Republican choice.

Easy for me to say now because Huckabee will not be the nominee, but I have about as much use for him as you have for McCain, and if he were to win the nomination I would take my own suggestion and two pepcids and throw the lever next to his name.

I'll be voting for McCain, too.

Any 'druthers on who you'd like to see him face in the general?

I was the dude in the pinstripe suit and power tie right behind Carl Cameron's nose, holding the kid, and waving a little American flag.

States Obama won with (so far) more than 60% of the vote:

Colorado
Georgia
Idaho (over 70%)
Illinois
Kansas (over 70%)
Minnesota
North Dakota

States Clinton won with (so far) more than 60% of the vote:

Arkansas