A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

The long term view may prefer losing outright and allowing the Dems' choice to piss off the splintered GOP electorate, rather than elect an unreliable McCain and splinter further...

And one day soon; I may sit down at a poker table with the intention of losing...

Lash, I thought like you did a month ago, that McCain had no chance. I'm not so sure now. Even Rush admitted he is looking better compared to what he did a while ago, and McCain and Rush have never hit it off. Remember, McCain won New Hampshire once before, and it didn't translate into future victories, but if he won New Hampshire again, which is not likely according to polls, but who knows, if he does, he is running against a different field this time and it could kick-start his campaign in future states.

I still think you are right, McCain is probably toast, but I am not absolutely sure.

I used to be an admirer of McCain---and even though I personally have lost respect for him, I try not to let that cloud my prognostications.

He really had some weird un-McCain-like reversals of behavior and opinion in the opening months of the campaign---it seemed like some serious mental anomaly at the time--and verbal gaffes that I don't think can be survived in the generals.

These errors and the anti-GOP moves he made as a senator---I think---are mortal wounds in a GOP primary.

However, I'm not nearly as invested in the outcome of this one as I have been previously. Just saying what I think...

OBill---I didn't say the GOP would seek to lose---but they may back someone who may seem to have less of a chance than McC because of the reasons I mentioned.

That's been my experience with McCain; I believed at one time he was one of my top candidates, but I've lost respect for him over the past year. Because so many say how his integrity is intact (compared to his competitors), and he can be trusted in the long run, my present feeling about him is a mix between "maybe" and "I'll wait." I guess I'll wait on the fence for a bit; it's still too early to commit.

I used to think, even just a few weeks ago, that Giuliani would be the most fearsome opponent the Republicans could put up. He'd be the worst President of the lot (from among those still standing), and that's saying something - but he'd be the most formidable campaigner of them.

Luckily, as Okie and I were discussing earlier, he seems to be dead in the water by now - which is no end of a relief. See this post of mine, purely on the horserace logic of it; and that was when he was still heading for fourth in Iowa. Now it seems he might be heading for fifth, while not just coming third in New Hampshire, but third at a great distance or even fourth. If he then gets third places at best in Michigan and South Carolina as now seems likely, I dont see how he survives much beyond that. See also Okie's post at the top of the next page for a more content-oriented take.

Yeeks. I hadn't been paying attention last few weeks... and surely look (am) ignorant for it. What the hell happened? The right may be in serious trouble, because I don't see myself voting for any but a moderate Republican.

Long time no see.

Welcome back!

Thanks Finn. Good to see you.

This is the latest cover of The American Conservative magazine. I hear that the article talks about how Rudy has surrounded himself with advisors who don't think the Bush policy on preemptive war doesn't go far enough.





...some scary sheeit, mang.

WOW!

I mean, interesting no matter what if it's good reportage, but THAT image on the cover of "American Conservative?"

Wow.

And note the inclusion of Salon's Glenn Greenwald.

This is Buchanan's baby, of course, and it reflects that tendency towards traditional conservative isolationism. In the present tense, Buchanan looks a moderate.

That (the cover) was nasty! This is what the right will do to you when you don't toe their line.

That's disgusting.

...eating their own...to their own detriment...small minded assholes.

Dude.

I think Giuliani is the most scary candidate in the entire field (which is saying something) - when it comes to foreign policy, he's just insane. His advisors include a who's who of the batshit crazy of the neocon radicals. But even I wouldnt have gone this far.

Wow.

It's entirely appropriate. Giuliani is, without a doubt, the strongest advocate of authoritarianism and unending warfare amongst all the candidates.

Like Bush on steroids, with more obvious corruption.

Cycloptichorn

Is that how Rudy cut crime in NYC? Gestapo tactics?

Partially by putting in charge a mob-connected and extremely corrupt police chief.

The concept that Rudy didn't know about his corruption is nothing but laughable. That any right-winger could even consider voting for the guy is beyond me.

Cycloptichorn

Hyperbole, cyclo.

They're ALL nuts in some way or another and Hillary is FAR scarier than Rudester. Don't be so naive.

I wouldn't equate Hillary with Rudy on the issue of aggression, but I don't trust either one in the white house.

I disagree. I dislike Hillary personally but she supports no particular policies which I or anyone find 'scary.' I wonder what specific policy proposals of hers you are scared of?

Rudy, on the other hand, has a very well documented track record of ignoring the law and acting as an authoritarian. He consistently makes comments which betray his inner authoritarian. He espouses the strongest support for Bush's most authoritarian and illegal actions. There's not much hyperbole here.

If you like, I'd be more then happy to get into specifics. But I think we both know it won't be pretty (unlike someone )

Cycloptichorn