0
   

A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2007 07:17 am
Oh wow, that Farah rant was fun!
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2007 07:44 am
The Morgan State debate seems to be the next 'missing candidates' site.

wapo

Quote:
Key Republican leaders are encouraging the party's presidential candidates to rethink their decision to skip presidential debates focusing on issues important to minorities, fearing a backlash that could further erode the party's standing with black and Latino voters.

The leading contenders for the Republican nomination have indicated they will not attend the "All American Presidential Forum" organized by black talk show host Tavis Smiley, scheduled for Sept. 27 at Morgan State University in Baltimore and airing on PBS. Former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, former senator Fred D. Thompson (Tenn.) and Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) all cited scheduling conflicts in forgoing the debate. The top Democratic contenders attended a similar event in June at Howard University.

"We sound like we don't want immigration; we sound like we don't want black people to vote for us," said former congressman Jack Kemp (N.Y.), who was the GOP vice presidential nominee in 1996. "What are we going to do -- meet in a country club in the suburbs one day? If we're going to be competitive with people of color, we've got to ask them for their vote."

Making matters worse, some Republicans believe, is that the decision to bypass the Morgan State forum comes after all top GOP candidates save McCain declined invitations this month to a debate on Univision, the most-watched Hispanic television network in the United States. The event was eventually postponed.

"For Republicans to consistently refuse to engage in front of an African American or Latino audience is an enormous error," said former House speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.), who has not yet ruled out a White House run himself. "I hope they will reverse their decision and change their schedules. I see no excuse -- this thing has been planned for months, these candidates have known about it for months. It's just fundamentally wrong. Any of them who give you that scheduling-conflict answer are disingenuous. That's baloney."


Cornel West's comments

Princella Smith - Awakening the Deafening Silence

Quote:

I'm not sure what Romney and Rudy are thinking. Do they believe voters in IA, NH and SC are going to say: "Well, I wasn't sure who to support, but since you boycotted that debate for black folks, you've got my vote!" Surely not.

It is absolutely ridiculous to snub an entire demographic of an electorate and then ask to lead their country. If this is their train of thought, I feel they are not worthy to lead. To think this incident will go away with time is unwise, because like the African-American electorate, this elephant never forgets.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2007 09:44 am
nimh wrote:
Keyes also was among those participating in tonight's Values Voter Debate in Florida. So were Huckabee, Brownback, Ron Paul, Tancredo, Duncan Hunter, and the one guy who's not allowed into the rest of the debates: John Cox.


Have you managed to find a transcript of this? I've searched, and so far the best I've found is a guy on DailyKos saying that HE had a hard time finding it, plus a video (no transcript).
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 10:03 am
Quote:
New York Rep. Peter King, a prominent House Republican, said there are "too many mosques in this country" in a recent interview with Politico.

"There are too many people sympathetic to radical Islam," King said. "We should be looking at them more carefully and finding out how we can infiltrate them."

youtube clip... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMydUdKtA_Q

And the happy news... King is listed as Rudy Giuliani's homeland security adviser.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 11:37 am
McGentrix wrote:
nimh wrote:
Note that Cyclo suggested a relevant tidbit on the matter:

Quote:
The Republicans have used more filibusters in the first 7 months of this congress, then the Dems did in 4 years of minority status in the Senate. I think there's a fair argument to make that the Republicans are engaging in far, far greater obstructionism then the Dems ever did.

Comment?


Support it or it didn't happen. Which votes have the Republicans filibustered?


The Republicans used the filibuster threat again today to block Boxer's amendment. That's 4 times in two days that they have used this. They filibuster every piece of legislation that comes to the floor which they don't like.

The Dems used the filibuster 4 times in two years. There's no doubt that the Republicans have taken the politics of obstruction to record heights.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 01:21 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The Dems used the filibuster 4 times in two years. There's no doubt that the Republicans have taken the politics of obstruction to record heights.

You may want to read a history book about the 40s, 50s, and 60s, when Southern Democrats used the filibuster to block civil rights legislation. What you're seeing today are hardly record heights by any historical standard.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 01:21 pm
Cyclo, I doubt very much that most Americans understand why this congress is unproductive. Why aren't more media people covering this obstructionist GOP?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 01:30 pm
Thomas wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The Dems used the filibuster 4 times in two years. There's no doubt that the Republicans have taken the politics of obstruction to record heights.

You may want to read a history book about the 40s, 50s, and 60s, when Southern Democrats used the filibuster to block civil rights legislation. What you're seeing today are hardly record heights by any historical standard.


Record numbers of the Fillibuster being used, for sure, even if it was used in the past. I haven't been able to find a count for the number of times it was used back then... But, 4 in two days?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 01:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I haven't been able to find a count for the number of times it was used back then... But, 4 in two days?

We're at a stalemate then. I don't have the precise numbers either. But I'm pretty sure that the filibuster has always been used generously to kill bills that had less than three fifth of the votes. I'm pretty sure that what the Republicans are doing is rather normal. But as I said, I don't have the numbers any more than you do.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 01:59 pm
http://i3.tinypic.com/4u1sco6.jpg
Source
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 02:00 pm
I'd say that's pretty clear evidence that we are experiencing record levels of obstructionism.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 02:10 pm
Weeell -- technically, not every cloture vote represents a filibuster. Only a cloture vote that fails to invoke cloture represents a filibuster. Walter's graph says nothing about the share of successful cloture votes. Nevertheless, it does make it more likely than not that I'm wrong.

Bill it to my pro-obstruction bias. As you know I quite like it when the government doesn't govern.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 06:12 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Dude. Thats pretty stunning.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 06:18 pm
I've been pretty harsh against the do-nothing democratic congress, but I'm easing my criticism a little bit. They're being strung around like sheep when Bush wants more money for this war, and seems hog-tied by politics rather than what's good for the American People.

At least ten GOP members of the Senate should be ousted and replaced by a democrat - just to see if they can get the business for our country accomplished.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 08:11 pm
sozobe wrote:
nimh wrote:
Keyes also was among those participating in tonight's Values Voter Debate in Florida. So were Huckabee, Brownback, Ron Paul, Tancredo, Duncan Hunter, and the one guy who's not allowed into the rest of the debates: John Cox.


Have you managed to find a transcript of this? I've searched, and so far the best I've found is a guy on DailyKos saying that HE had a hard time finding it, plus a video (no transcript).

Didnt come across a transcript, but there was a colorful report on the event on Yahoo News:

Quote:


Report also testifies of an unnerving hard-right consensus though, one that included Huckabee:

Quote:
The debate was marked more by the candidates' agreement than anything else, illustrated in a round in which they were asked a string of yes-or-no questions.

All seven participants said they would work to keep federal funding away from organizations that perform or promote abortions; to revive an attempt to reform Social Security by offering personal retirement accounts; and to oppose a government-run universal health insurance system.

They all vowed to increase funding for abstinence education, to veto hate crimes legislation and to oppose embryonic stem cell research. They all agreed multiculturalism "weakens and divides" the country. [..] Paul called for an end to U.S. involvement with the United Nations. [..]


There was also a straw poll at the event, notes NY Times' election blog - and Huckabee won easily, while Romney got 0 (zero) votes:

Quote:
For all those wondering whether Mitt Romney can break through among Christian conservatives, add this data point: he was the only candidate who received zero votes in a straw poll after last night's Values Voters Debate, an event he and the other leading Republican contenders decided to skip.

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee was the runaway winner with 64 percent of the vote, raising anew the question of whether Christian conservative leaders and voters might be able to coalesce around him as a longshot candidate and propel him to the first tier in the Republican race.

The rest of the pack: Rep. Ron Paul, of Texas, 12 percent; Alan Keyes, who made his debut as a candidate at the debate, 5 percent, Senator Sam Brownback, 5 percent; Rep. Duncan Hunter 4 percent; Fred D. Thompson, 4 percent; Rep. Tom Tancredo, 2 percent; Rudolph W. Giuliani 1 percent, Senator John McCain and John Cox, 1 percent; Mr. Romney, 0 percent.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 08:20 pm
(added straw poll bit above)

sozobe wrote:
Oh wow, that Farah rant was fun!

Looks like there might be more coming from that direction.

Here's a highly entertaining rant (also sourced from The Caucus) from religious right grand poobah James Dobson, from Focus on the Family, about Fred Thompson.

Damn.. with a conservative movement like that, who needs liberals? Shocked Laughing

Quote:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 08:42 pm
nimh wrote:
Damn.. with a conservative movement like that, who needs liberals? Shocked Laughing

More fun and games from the American Family Association (AFA), courtesy of a TNR poster:

Quote:
So I get AFA Action Alerts (I signed up in order to send letters of support to whoever they're attacking -- it's mainly a dissertation procrastination thing. ..)

Anyway. Today, I received an invitation to vote in a poll asked, "Would you vote for a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual marriage Republican candidate for president?" It helpfully points out that Giuliani is the only one meeting that definition, and then asks for "Yes" or "No."

For some reason, "I wouldn't vote for *any* Republican candidate" is not an option.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 05:17 pm
In a new survey, the Pew Research Center asked respondents "a different kind of question".

They asked: "as I say some words or phrases, tell me whether John Edwards, Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton comes to mind." (The names were read in random order.)

"For example," they asked the respondent, "who comes to mind when I say 'honest', Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or John Edwards?" (Again, the names were read in random order.)

Then the same for "friendly", "tough", etcetera.

They asked Democrats and Democrat-leaning Independents about the Democratic candidates, and Republicans and Republican-leaning Independents about the Republican candidates.

Interesting stuff - these were the results:


http://people-press.org/reports/images/356-1.gif


More information is summarized here.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 07:14 am
Michigan Republicans "celebrate the pleasures of money and privilege".

Quote:
The GOP gets gaudy in Michigan

How do Republican presidential candidates woo the beleaguered voters of what may now be a crucial primary state? Party like aristocrats!

Salon
Sept. 24, 2007

Despite the constant efforts of men with shovels, the road to the Grand Hotel, one of America's oldest resorts, stinks of manure dropped by the horses drawing carriages. This is an island without cars or right of passage. Those pedestrians who have not paid $400 or so for a room cannot even walk near the hotel. "This is as far as you can go," bark guards in red jackets. A nearby sign explains that ladies "may not be attired in slacks" and gentlemen must wear coats and ties after 6 p.m.

On its face, this is not the sort of place that Republicans would want to hold a two-day, four-meal banquet celebration of democracy, especially if they want to win any elections in Michigan. The blue-collar state, which is locked in a recession, has the highest unemployment rate in the nation, 7.2 percent. Homes are foreclosing in Detroit at five times the national average, and the state government is broke. As of a week ago, 73,000 employees of General Motors began working without a contract. "The hopelessness that exists is just something I have never seen," said Denise DeCook, a Republican pollster who has worked in the state for decades. In one of her recent polls, 81 percent of its residents said Michigan was on the wrong track.

But these facts did not sour the mood this weekend at the 27th Biennial Mackinac Republican Leadership Conference, since the state GOP has a new reason to be hopeful. Several weeks ago, the gridlocked Legislature here rescheduled Michigan's presidential primary for Jan. 15, making it the third state, after Iowa and New Hampshire, to weigh in on the 2008 election. Democratic candidates responded to this apostasy by pledging not to campaign in Michigan, diluting the importance of any victory here. But Republicans have vowed to compete, making the state a potentially decisive factor in the Republican nomination battle.

In celebration of their good fortune, Republican ladies donned their fancy dresses and the gentlemen put on their blazers and striped ties. For about 36 hours beginning Friday afternoon, more than 2,000 politicians and party activists passed through the Grand Hotel, boozing and slapping backs in one of America's last bastions of Victorian aristocratic nostalgia. [..] At times, the scene recalled Jack Nicholson's ballroom hallucinations from the 1980 horror movie, "The Shining."

Built in 1887, the Grand Hotel is columned and cavernous, with a candy-striped interior [..] and a jewelry store named "The Colony Shop," which was sold out of canary diamonds for the weekend. The wait staff, imported from Jamaica on temporary visas, was entirely black, and they served food to invariably white Republicans while wearing white-tie tuxedos with jackets the color of AstroTurf. (Brochures left in the guest rooms explained that the Jamaican help is provided with laundry and "recreational facilities" at their on-island dormitories.) Croquet and bocce ball could be played down in the Tea Garden, which was decorated with abundant blooming flowers and bushes shaped like horses. At tea time, a harpist in heels played "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" while women in maid costumes served tea cakes and champagne just a few steps from an exhibit of vintage oil paintings that showed young girls in lace dresses and young boys with spent shotguns and dead birds.

The Republican Party has been coming to Mackinac Island [..] since the days of Dwight Eisenhower, and the walls are decorated with photographs of Gerald Ford golfing and George H.W. Bush giving a speech. It was a point of considerable pride for the party that each of the Republican presidential candidates had initially planned to attend this year's event. "Michigan has become a bellwether state," declared Saul Anuzis, the state party chairman.

But three of the candidates, including Sam Brownback and Tom Tancredo, dropped out at the last minute, evidently daunted by the enormous cost of traveling to the island, which is about 250 miles north of Detroit in Lake Huron. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee went so far as to put out a last-minute press release, explaining that his only option, given his schedule, was to charter a jet, which his cash-strapped campaign could not afford. "Commercial airline schedules couldn't get us there until after things were over Friday," Huckabee explained. "And we would have to have left even before they started on Saturday."

But the four GOP front-runners all made it to the Grand Hotel for long enough to display the eccentric styles that have made the Republican primary so interesting. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who used to stay on the island as a teenager when his father was Michigan's governor, made a grand entrance, shadowed by dozens of young supporters in blue shirts, whom some in the press called "Mitt-bots" for their super-human coordination when chanting Romney's name over and over again for minutes at a time. "I must admit it was a good piece of news, when I heard Michigan would come early," Romney said at a press conference on the hotel's front porch, which the owners claim is the longest front porch in the world. The bots, who'd gathered around him, cheered wildly. Over lunch on Saturday, he debuted a new, finely tuned stump speech, "Republicans for Change," which he read off a teleprompter. "I want to bring accountability back to Washington," he said.

An few hours later, former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson walked out of the hotel into a mob of reporters, who pressed around him in a chaotic scene that the Romney advance team, not to mention the Mitt-bots, would have never allowed. He muttered some bland answers to a handful of questions and then fled back inside. His speech at dinner that night was mostly a dry rendition of his life story, which seemed to put the crowd to sleep. "It was the worst speech I've ever heard up here," one local Michigan pol, who wore a Rudy Giuliani pin, told me afterward. "You want to lead the free world, have some passion about it."

Thompson was followed by Arizona Sen. John McCain, who garnered some of the biggest cheers of the conference, in part because it was late and people had been drinking for hours. "I was informed that I was the last speaker," he said on taking the stage. "I feel a bit like Zsa Zsa Gabor's fifth husband, who on her wedding night said, 'I know what I am supposed to do; I just don't know how to make it interesting.'" Reading from a prompter, he offered a vigorous defense of the current military policy in Iraq. "We must not choose to lose," he said. But perhaps the biggest applause of the conference came when he criticized Columbia University for inviting the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to speak on campus. "A man who is directing the maiming and killing of American troops should not be given an invitation to speak at an American university," he thundered, yielding a standing ovation.

The night before, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani visited the island just long enough to deliver a 35-minute dinner address. After speaking at length about the importance of staying "on offense" in the war on terror, he offered what has become the central argument of his campaign: his own electability. "I honestly think I have the best chance of defeating Hillary Clinton," he said. "If we are going to win back the House, if we are going to win back the Senate, we cannot go into the next election giving up New York, California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Washington, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan." As soon as the speech was over, he left without shaking voters' hands or glancing at the press. His ferry off the island that night was packed with supporters of the libertarian Texas Rep. Ron Paul, who, according to several accounts, spent the ride shouting Paul chants in Giuliani's general direction.

The candidates' appearances, however, were almost tangential to the real point of the weekend, which was to celebrate the pleasures of money and privilege. The diners supped on cold strawberry soup, prosciutto, and pecan-coated ice cream balls. People did not use the word "money" when they talked about money. "Everyone in this room understands the importance of resources, the importance of finance, in winning campaigns," said Dick DeVos, the son of the billionaire founder of Amway, who lost a costly race for governor last year, which he funded with $35 million of his own fortune.

Scratch beneath the glitz, however, and it was not hard to find the real economic concerns that shape modern-day Michigan. Not everyone in attendance was as rich as the setting made it appear. Anuzis said many had saved up money for months to make the biannual trek up to the island. And everyone, regardless of class, understood that the state was in trouble. "Michigan is just going down the tubes," said Gordon Trute, a committee member of the Mecosta County GOP, who has seen two manufacturing companies he worked for go out of business. "We have nothing left now."

These economic concerns are likely to loom large as primary day approaches. About 80,000 Republicans are expected to vote in the Iowa caucuses. The New Hampshire primary could garner around 260,000 Republican ballots. By comparison, the Michigan Republican primary, which will occur just days later, is expected to bring about 1.2 million voters to the polls, a group that includes independents who can vote on a GOP ticket. Whatever the final outcome, the voters on primary day will surely represent a broader coalition than the elites who traveled to the Grand Hotel to admire the view from the porch. As it stands now, Romney leads in most polls, in part because of his family's name identification, and in part because he is the only candidate with a full team of staffers devoted to Michigan.

After the final speech was given [on] Saturday night, I stumbled away from the hotel, glad to be free of tea times and low-tax talk. Farther down the street, where people can walk wherever they please, I found a local watering hole where no one wore a pastel sport coat. "Too many damn Nazis around," said a lady sitting at the bar, when I asked her how she was doing. She was a local, one of the few hundred who live year-round on the island, and she was not referring to the man sitting next to her, with the human skulls tattooed on the back of his hand. Rather, it was the boatloads of visiting Republicans that had gotten her goat. "That is their safe haven up there," she said of the Grand Hotel.

Asking to remain anonymous for fear of retribution from the hotel's powerful owner, she told me about the tensions between the Grand Hotel and the island residents. She explained how the hotel seemed to parcel out jobs by race and ethnicity: Jamaican waiters, Austrian chefs, Hispanic housekeepers and grounds crew, Caucasian drivers for the horse-drawn carriages. She told me how the locals sneak into the hotel pool in the summer, and how the winters are better, because there are no tourists and you can snowmobile down the street. She said she had no plans to vote in the coming election, nor did most of the people she knew. She couldn't stand President Bush, and she was convinced the whole political game was crooked.

[..] Her political views seemed likely to be more representative of the state than those of the 2,000 Republicans up at the Grand Hotel. "There is a whole other side to this island from the lilac fudge and the horses," she said. It was a side of the island that probably didn't smell half as bad.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 10:27 am
nimh wrote:
Michigan Republicans "celebrate the pleasures of money and privilege".

Quote:
But three of the candidates, including Sam Brownback and Tom Tancredo, dropped out at the last minute, evidently daunted by the enormous cost of traveling to the island, which is about 250 miles north of Detroit in Lake Huron. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee went so far as to put out a last-minute press release, explaining that his only option, given his schedule, was to charter a jet, which his cash-strapped campaign could not afford. "Commercial airline schedules couldn't get us there until after things were over Friday," Huckabee explained. "And we would have to have left even before they started on Saturday."


Good grief. Even I know how to get there. It's not that inaccessible, or expensive to get to. Jet Blue to Detroit, then rent a van, drive north, cross the bridge, park. That's inexpensive.

I suspect the visuals of getting around the island by horse-drawn carriage would be a downside to candidates who are looking to attract blue collar voters.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

My Fellow Prisoners... - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Afred E. Smith Dinner - Discussion by cjhsa
mccain begs off - Discussion by dyslexia
If Biden And Obama Aren't Qualified - Discussion by Bi-Polar Bear
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
McCain lies - Discussion by nimh
The Case Against John McCain - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 08/18/2025 at 11:24:57