Is this board anti-muslim?

"Perhaps the guy posting earlier (forgot who) who said that it says more about the user than about the group described is right."

Sure is.

Perplexed..I haven't read a lot of this thread, but my bet would be you have drawn a few of the antimuslim bigots, as well as folk who find more reasonable fault with your, and other, religions and philosophies. So, re "maybe this board isn't for you"..

Well, you will not enjoy it of you do not like to be challenged and challenged hard about your beliefs.

But...you have landed fair in one of the most contentious areas of the board, and have doubtless drawn a lot more fire than the average new poster.

You could decide to try other parts of the place as well (forgive me if you already have) and get to know people a bit before deciding. I can see why you might feel a bit unwelcome right now.

I am intrigued by the little I have read of your posts, and would like it if you stuck around to have some reasonable discussions with.

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I have a question. Perplexed seems to be trying very hard to get people to understand him/her and what he/she believes.

Yet, when he/she tells you that he/she doesn't agree with that particular part of his/her religion you then tell him/her, "uh, nope, you can't do that. You have to accept it 100% the way it is?"

I would think it's pretty safe to say that not one single person in this world agrees with 100% of what another person believes. If I were Perplexed right now, I'd kind of feel between a rock and a hard place, if ya get my drift. :wink:

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Kinda my point too, yeah <nods>

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Dang it, Nimh Embarrassed

, I was going to tell you that I was in agreement with you and forgot. Sorry, I'm a bit distracted with the cats this morning Embarrassed

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Perplexed, do you know anything about the history of your religion? Or the koran? Its one big con-trick, designed to provide a power base for the ruling elite in a particular tribe in Arabia, and an excuse for the enslavement of other tribes.

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Steve,

That is YOUR view of it. It obviously is not Perplexed's view. Can't you see how those kinds of statements can be offensive?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Steve,

That is YOUR view of it. It obviously is not Perplexed's view. Can't you see how those kinds of statements can be offensive?

A few years ago I would not have challenged someone's deeply held religious beliefs out of a desire not to give unnecessary offense. But you know MA I am offended, not just by other people's deeply held religious beliefs which cause them to put bombs on my tube line but because they expect me to believe stuff which is palpable nonsense. When someone tells me the earth is 6000 years old or that evolution is only a "theory", I find that offensive. And when this same crap is forced into the heads of kids, thats child abuse, and I find that very offensive indeed.

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Steve,

I can't disagree with what you just posted. But, my point is this, Perplexed doesn't seem to hold those views that you just spoke of, yet you seem to be attributing them to him/her. I understand the anger and frustration about religious issues.

I think prhaps the first place for any of us to start is to really look at the person we are having the discussion with. Discern what it is THEY believe and not discern what WE feel they believe because of others.

I mean no offense to anyone regarding this. It's something we are all guilty of doing one way or another in our lives IMO.

Perplexed, are you male or female? That way I won't have to keep typing him/her or he/she. Laughing

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Perplexed has already demonstrated the inability to recognize a truth which challenges his/her beliefs. Perplexed has denied that any part of the Quran was "dictated." This ignores that it was such common knowledge that Mohammed was illiterate, that Muslim scholars have never tried to deny the fact. That is just one example of wearing blinders, and doing so willingly.

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...another very good example would be your blindness to your own overbearing pomposity.

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Yes, Muhammad was illiterate, (ummi in arabic), but that doesn't matter, because he did not WRITE the Qur'an. He RECITED it. Qur'an is an arabic word which means "recitation". He heard it from the archangel Gabriel, memorized it (with supernatural help) and repeated it to others who could write, who then wrote it down.

I don't recall ever saying that the Qur'an wasn't "dictated" because that's exactly what it was, every single letter of it was dictated, twice, once to Muhammad, once from him to those who could write.

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How are we to know that Mohammed received "supernatural help" to memorize and then repeat this revealed truth?

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It's simply a matter of faith, one of the miracles of my religion. You don't ask christians how they know Jesus rose from the dead do you? You don't ask Jews how they know the walls of jericho fell.

In reply to some earlier posts:

I am not a fundamentalist Muslim, I get in a lot of arguements with other muslims because I have a much more liberal viewpoint than they do.

If kaffir are haraam then every single prayer by every single muslim that attends my mosque has not been valid, because we live surrounded my kaffir, thouroughly inside their society. It would be ridiculous for kaffir to be haraam, what would have become of the first muslims if that were the case? When there were no muslims besides Muhammad, Khadija and Abu Bakr, where they committing a sin everytime they spoke or dealt with any other person? It woudln't make sense, therefore, I canno believe that talking to kaffir is haraam. It's not only not haraam, but muslims are supposed to do some form of daw'ah (evangelising basically) how could they do that if they couldn't talk to kaffir?

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Yes, i do ask those questions, because they are germane. You have a thread here in which you indulge special pleading for a respect for your illiterate, dead-beat prophet. I accord such special consideration to neither Judaism nor Christianity, why should i accord such special respect to Islam?

This board is not anti-Muslim, nor is it necessarily anti-religious. However, there are quite a few anti-religious people here, and you are completely from left field if you think they have no right to criticize your imaginary friend superstition.

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There are respectful and disrespectful ways to do anything. You could ask about my religion, express your doubts about it, even express your displeasure with and opposition to my relgion in ways which are respectful or not. You've chosen to be disrespectful, and without reason. Your words don't do a THING to hurt my religion, what they hurt is ME, and I've never done a thing to you to deserve it.

oh, and momma, I am a boy:)

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That's just the way Spitsanta is, Perplexed. He just doesn't know any better - probably bad home training...

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Thanx Perplexed. It will be easier addressing you. Mr. Setanta does have his way. Try not to take it personally. It's just something you either get used to or you don't. Can't change what he does so I have to change how I react to it kind of thing. :wink:

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Perplexed wrote:

It's simply a matter of faith, one of the miracles of my religion. You don't ask christians how they know Jesus rose from the dead do you? You don't ask Jews how they know the walls of jericho fell.

Huh?

Where on earth would you get such an idea?

Of course we ask those questions.

And the answer, as with your own "miracles" is simple. Neither jews, christians, nor muslims know any such thing.....you have no basis for your beliefs except blind faith handed down over the generations.

You may well believe such stuff, but you do not know it at all.

Perplexed wrote:

In reply to some earlier posts:

I am not a fundamentalist Muslim, I get in a lot of arguements with other muslims because I have a much more liberal viewpoint than they do.

If kaffir are haraam then every single prayer by every single muslim that attends my mosque has not been valid, because we live surrounded my kaffir, thouroughly inside their society. It would be ridiculous for kaffir to be haraam, what would have become of the first muslims if that were the case? When there were no muslims besides Muhammad, Khadija and Abu Bakr, where they committing a sin everytime they spoke or dealt with any other person? It woudln't make sense, therefore, I canno believe that talking to kaffir is haraam. It's not only not haraam, but muslims are supposed to do some form of daw'ah (evangelising basically) how could they do that if they couldn't talk to kaffir?

I am interested in your not being fundamentalist.

Could you outline how your views differ in important ways from theirs?

I undeerstood that differing interpretations of Islam were very common, and there was much debate about how various parts of the Koran were to be interpreted?

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No problem Momma, and thanks for the advice. I don't understand why someone would want to hurt someone else for no reason, I've never done a thing to Setanta, why would he be so rude to me? I've never understood people who are just habitually rude, do they have no mothers to be ashamed of them?

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There are many small differences, but the most important, to me, is very simple. I do not support violence (and I even have a broader view of what constitutes violence than most) towards non-violent persons, no matter what your reasons. If you die killing innocents, that does NOT make you a martyr, it makes you a dead murderer, and according to Islam (and I'd like to think all the other religons as well) murderers are harshly punished in the next life.

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Is this board anti-muslim?

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