2
   

Is this board anti-muslim?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:43 pm
Intrepid,

This is the quote that Nimh (I believe) posted from:

Wikipedia:


Quote:
Towelhead
(U.S.) anyone who wears a head turban. Derisively applied towards Middle Easterners and Muslims, but rarely applied against people who wear other types of turbans.
(Australia) wearers of religious headdress, particularly Sikhs.


I repeatedly asked Lash if she was reading the bolded statement in a different way than I was because to me, it sounds like the term towelhead is definitely something considered offensive. She never addressed this so I accepted it as I am understanding it.

How do you view this?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:46 pm
Momma,
I believe that I read it the same as most reasonable people. However, I want to know specifically what Lash's definition is and when it can reasonably be used. Or, anyone else that thinks that the word is acceptable speech.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:47 pm
Well, maybe she will answer you because she will not answer me.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:49 pm
I think I'd like to go on record here - just as timber. In my not so humble opinion, "towellhead" is an offensive, derisive, mean-spirited epithet. As typical of such idiotic, puerile slurs, it more demeans and embarrasses its wielder than its target, though again typically, the wielder most often is incapable of recognizing, let alone acknowledging, the consequent embarrassment, thus compounding it.

Apart from that, it is, as used on these boards, flame bait - pure and simple trolling. Rising to the bait is just as inappropriate as casting it, and, if anything, dumber. There is no profit to be had allowing a fool to trick you into behaving like a fool, as the fool will simply drag you to his level and beat you with experience. Its a game nobody can win, just playing it is to lose, but since nobody needs to play that game, its a game nobody but a fool needs to lose.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:52 pm
Wish I could use that second paragraph as my signature line Timber. Very well stated.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:58 pm
roger wrote:
I though it was related to morbid, as in dead


It is but it is more specific. As to the power within...
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 12:35 am
Lash Wrote:

Quote:
This is so bizarre.

On this thread, being asked to give a straight answer and accept the consequences of that answer is not respectable?

Forcing someone to stand behind what they are saying is disrespectful? How could anyone possibly pretend that's even remotely sane?

We all enter these conversations, knowing we will likely be "pinned down." If we can't take an analysis of our opinion, we keep our mouths shut, or accept the consequences.

I've never seen such an "argument."


http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1824582&highlight=bizarre#1824582

Perhaps now you understand how I felt in the same kind of situation you are now in Lash. And that is exactly why I tried to get you to answer my question, because I did understand how you felt in this situation and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 12:48 am
timberlandko wrote:
I think I'd like to go on record here - just as timber. In my not so humble opinion, "towellhead" is an offensive, derisive, mean-spirited epithet. As typical of such idiotic, puerile slurs, it more demeans and embarrasses its wielder than its target, though again typically, the wielder most often is incapable of recognizing, let alone acknowledging, the consequent embarrassment, thus compounding it.

Apart from that, it is, as used on these boards, flame bait - pure and simple trolling. Rising to the bait is just as inappropriate as casting it, and, if anything, dumber. There is no profit to be had allowing a fool to trick you into behaving like a fool, as the fool will simply drag you to his level and beat you with experience. Its a game nobody can win, just playing it is to lose, but since nobody needs to play that game, its a game nobody but a fool needs to lose.

I had started three or four responses to you, Intrepid, and each time I'd see a new post, which would change the content of what I was writing.

Timber's post is bizarre, but it is indicative of the misperceptions that run rampant re my "argument" about "terms." It is a speech issue to me. It wasn't when I first used it. It was an angry epithet, directed towards terrorists. Not Muslims, not Arabs, but terrorists and the mobs of people, who support them. I feel perfectly justified in expressing fury at them, as they aren't a religion or an ethnicity, but a specific mob of people, who I WANTED to insult. When the term was called racist, I thought the fact that I wasn't even thinking about race or religion, important enough to challenge it and explore the dovetailing speech issue. Both of these topics have been of great interest for a long time.

There are other terms that are offensive, but not considered big racial slurs. Towelhead seems to be an attack on the fact that someone chooses to wear a big, towel-like thing on their head--a throw off on attire. It's not a religious attack, it's not a racial attack. So, what is the basis for the "attack?" Isn't it a personal attack, like so many others? That has been my question....the disparity of all these terms, and the "actual" insult of the term towelhead.

I don't like to relinquish control over my meaning.

Anyway, before most of these last five or six posts showed up, I'd PMed someone, who said I should just post the PM and leave it. So, I shall, and I thank him for kindness.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It appears as though I'm not going to be changing the world. Regardless of what it may seem, I am not crusading for the right to use epithets with impunity. I don't use them IRL, and I've used one here --as directed to terrorists-- once, that I know of.

The issue that interests me is the wide array of terms that are supposed to be derogatory--and why some are reviled and others are not. It seems to be in direct agreement with "society's" view of which group merits special consideration. It is so arbitrary and Big Brotherish, to me.

Anyway, I didn't want you to think I go about using those words. I just feel strongly that censoring speech does minorities and others, affected by racism, more harm than good.

It appears I am alone in this opinion. I am tired of fighting about it, and being misunderstood, so I plan to discontinue this line of discussion. I'll be self-censoring about something I consider important, and I already feel like I've lost something, but I am tired.

<smiles>

One woman protest rests,

~L

<not assy :wink: >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Intrepid,

If I haven't answered you adequately, feel free to PM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 12:54 am
Lash, don't rest... incubate... Smile
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 12:54 am
That was funny.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 12:59 am
I keep hearing people debating whether 'towelhead' is a 'racist' term or not.

To those who think it is, I have a few questions:

Just how many 'races' do you think there are? And to which 'race' do you think the people being described belong?

That'll do for a start. Maybe back for more later.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 12:59 am
Laughing
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 01:04 am
Laughing
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 01:47 am
Lash,

I couldn't sleep and I needed to come back and say something to you. You may not want to hear or read it, but that's ok.

Lash, I know you are very strong in your beliefs about freedom of speech. That is very evident. I think you want to protect that right and there is nothing wrong with doing that. It's an admirable quality to stand up for your principles.

In standing up for your principles of freedom of speech you put yourself in a pretty vicarious position. You were in a conflict. You wanted to defend your right to freedom of speech but how could you do that and say that calling someone a towelhead is a racist remark without feeling like your right to freedom of speech was being intruded upon? You couldn't. I understand that, Lash. You couldn't. What you did was make a choice of what was the more important issue to you and what would be the least harmful thing to do for those concerned and what you could accept for yourself.

I understand where you are coming from. This is exactly the conflict I found myself in about same sex marriage. Different issues, but same type of conflict.

I really don't have any hard feelings toward you. Yes, I get angry at some of the things you post to me, etc. I can live with it.

I realized from this statement of yours, that you were in a bit of a conflict and I could definitely identify with that.


Quote:
Have you ever wondered, since I hate some of these words, why I expend so much energy fighting against external controls of speech?

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=70133&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=560


Lash, you hate those words but you feel this right is more important than how you feel. I understand that. That is all I have been trying to tell you.

I'm not sucking up to you or anyone else. If I see someone saying something I think is cool or whatever, I tell them. If I see someone saying something I have a problem with, I tell them that also. It does't matter if that person likes me or not or if I like them or not. I just wanted you to know that your quoted statement did not go unnoticed.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 05:33 am
real life wrote:
I keep hearing people debating whether 'towelhead' is a 'racist' term or not.

To those who think it is, I have a few questions:

Just how many 'races' do you think there are? And to which 'race' do you think the people being described belong?

Uhm ok. So its not racist, its just bigoted, offensive, derogatory, and all that implicitly applied to an entire ethnic and/or religious group.

That any better?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 05:43 am
Laughing Clears it up for me.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 05:45 am
Yep, works for me too.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 06:35 am
towelhead
http://www.cyss.org/Pope%20POSTER1.jpg
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 06:50 am
nimh wrote:
real life wrote:
I keep hearing people debating whether 'towelhead' is a 'racist' term or not.

To those who think it is, I have a few questions:

Just how many 'races' do you think there are? And to which 'race' do you think the people being described belong?

Uhm ok. So its not racist, its just bigoted, offensive, derogatory, and all that implicitly applied to an entire ethnic and/or religious group.

That any better?
Glad you accept its not racist. Sure its offensive, but against which religion or "entire" enthnic group?

Surely it can only really apply to those people going around wearing what appear to be towels on their heads.

Lots of people go around with what appear to be nails and pins sticking out of their noses lips eybrows etc. If I call them Nailnose is that being offensive towards an entire ethnic/religious group?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 06:53 am
No matter how you look at it, in my experience, no one refers to someone as a "towelhead" in a kindly fashion. If the term is not racist, is is surely, at the least, nasty.
0 Replies
 
 

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