An open letter to all those decent American's

In my seventy one years I never imagined I would see the day when the United States of America would turn its back on humanity and decency by reverting to torture and murder to sate its paranoia; what occurred at Abu Graib Prison and Guantanmo Bay is a blot on our civilization no less disgusting than the evil that was the Third Reich.

President George Bush talks a lot about bringing democracy to the Middle East when in fact he has demonstrated an evil that is on a par with Nazi Germany … the world doesn't need another evil despot; since Bush became President the world has sunken into a mire of fear and uncertainty not seen since the Second World War … this is undoubtedly the most arrogant US President I have ever seen … his administration has destroyed the reputation of a country most of us held in high regard and kinship.

To that once civilized friendly nation that was the United States I say, "Please come back, I know you are still there somewhere, we miss our cousins from across the pond … those friendly welcoming soldiers whom I loved as a child in war torn Britain, don't let a rogue administration destroy what was once admired by the world"

Bush and his neocons must realise that they can't fight terrorism when they are part of it, in my opinion Bush's America is the greatest threat to world peace ... I never ever expected, in my life, that I would say that.
God bless the American people and deliver them from evil.

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/media/2006_alerts/etn_0222_dic.htm

I doubt that Abu Ghraib, while deplorable, exceeds the abuses that have occurred in prisoner treatment in every war of that size, since the dawn of time.

Is there anything worse than kicking a person to death, or beating them to death ... perhaps if you view it from the position of the victim or the victims mother, brother, sister, wife and children you will understand that evil is evil whoever commits it and it is totally alien to the America I once respected?

Brandon9000 wrote:

I doubt that Abu Ghraib, while deplorable, exceeds the abuses that have occurred in prisoner treatment in every war of that size, since the dawn of time.

A criminal thinking error on a grand scale.

You are making a mistake to judge an entire country based on the actions of a very, very few. The fact is, those people were reined in and the problems have been mitigated. In other countries, you probably would never have even heard about the instances of abuse. The press has emphasized the incidents of abuse, and of course the liberal factions have pounded away on it day after day for political purposes. My guess is as a conservative in America, if John Kerry had been elected and the very same type of things had occurred, we may not have even heard about them, and certainly they would not have been emphasized. You need to put such things into historical context.

I am certainly not judging an entire country; I believe this evil was perpetrated at the behest of an out of control administration … ordinary decent American citizens are no different from the decent citizens of other societies. I know American's and I also know the many condemn this evil, sanctioned by the Bush administration, but I really do not believe they are being told the truth about the excesses of their government.

In my seventy one years I never imagined I would see the day when the United States of America would turn its back on humanity and decency by reverting to torture and murder to sate its paranoia; what occurred at Abu Graib Prison and Guantanmo Bay is a blot on our civilization no less disgusting than the evil that was the Third Reich.

Is there anything worse than kicking a person to death, or beating them to death ...

anton wrote:

I am certainly not judging an entire country; I believe this evil was perpetrated at the behest of an out of control administration … ordinary decent American citizens are no different from the decent citizens of other societies. I know American's and I also know the many condemn this evil, sanctioned by the Bush administration, but I really do not believe they are being told the truth about the excesses of their government.

Prisoner abuse was never sanctioned by the Bush administration. In fact, the abuse was already being investigated by the military by the time it surfaced in the news, and the Bush administration was already setting in motion the fixing of the problem. The abuse involved a few out of control military personnel during a wartime situation. It was never sanctioned by Bush.

anton wrote:

Is there anything worse than kicking a person to death, or beating them to death ...

Yes. What Japan did to our POWs in WWII, for example.

DrewDad wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

I doubt that Abu Ghraib, while deplorable, exceeds the abuses that have occurred in prisoner treatment in every war of that size, since the dawn of time.

A criminal thinking error on a grand scale.

If I said it was okay, that would be criminal thinking, but note that I said it's deplorable. It is, in fact, not criminal thinking to note the true fact that it is not particularly unusual compared to past wars. Telling the truth is never criminal thinking, is it?

I lived through that war and I am aware of the horrors ... are you?

I am sure you are an intelligent, well meaning person trying to defend the honour of your country, I suggest you also read the report released by the US, Human Rights First ... Believe me, I don't want to denigrate the country I still hold in very high regard ... I know the majority of American citizens are decent God fearing people who just want to have a good life.

oralloy wrote:

anton wrote:

Is there anything worse than kicking a person to death, or beating them to death ...

Yes. What Japan did to our POWs in WWII, for example.

We are not talking about the Second World War we are talking about an evil that is happening today in the 21st Century... I lived through that war and I am aware of the horrors ... are you?
I am sure you are an intelligent, well meaning person trying to defend the honour of your country, I suggest you also read the report released by the US, Human Rights First ... Believe me, I don't want to denigrate the country I still hold in very high regard ... I know the majority of American citizens are decent God fearing people who just want to have a good life.

I completely disagree that torture is a "few bad apples" problem. We've seen the same techniques used in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they were introduced by people from, surprise, Guantanamo. If it were merely the acts of a few depraved individuals, I wouldn't expect to see the same techniques popping up in different regions. At the very least, the administration failed to make it clear that torture is not acceptable.

WARNER: Senator McCain?

MCCAIN: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

I come to this hearing with a deep sense of sorrow and grave concern. Sorrow for -- after the shock and anger of seeing these pictures for the first time, that so many brave young Americans who are fighting and dying are under this cloud.

I attended the memorial service of Pat Tillman, a brave American who sacrificed his life recently, and he and others, unfortunately, at least in some way are diminished by this scandal.

I'm gravely concerned that many Americans will have the same impulse as I did when I saw this picture, and that's to turn away from them. And we risk losing public support for this conflict. As Americans turned away from the Vietnam War, they may turn away from this one unless this issue is quickly resolved with full disclosure immediately.

With all due respect to investigations ongoing and panels being appointed, the American people deserve immediate and full disclosure of all relevant information so that we can be assured and comforted that something that we never believed could happen will never happen again.

Now, Mr. Secretary, I'd like to know -- I'd like you to give the committee the chain of command from the guards to you, all the way up the chain of command. I'd like to know...

RUMSFELD: I think General Myers brought an indication of it, and we'll show it.

MCCAIN: Thank you.

I'd like to know who was in charge of the -- what agencies or private contractors were in charge of interrogations? Did they have authority over the guards? And what were their instructions to the guards?

RUMSFELD: First, with respect to the...

SMITH: We did not bring it.

RUMSFELD: Oh, my.

SMITH: Yes, oh, my is right.

RUMSFELD: It was all prepared.

SMITH: Yes, it was, indeed.

RUMSFELD: Do you want to walk through it?

MCCAIN: Anyway, who was in charge? What agency or private contractor was in charge of the interrogations? Did they have authority over the guards? And what were the instructions that they gave to the guards?

SMITH: I'll walk through the chain of command and...

MCCAIN: No. Let's just -- you can submit the chain of command, please.

WARNER: General Smith, do you want to respond?

MCCAIN: No. Secretary Rumsfeld, in all due respect, you've got to answer this question. And it could be satisfied with a phone call. This is a pretty simple, straightforward question: Who was in charge of the interrogations? What agencies or private contractors were in charge of the interrogations? Did they have authority over the guards? And what were the instructions to the guards?

This goes to the heart of this matter.

RUMSFELD: It does indeed.

As I understand it, there were two contractor organizations. They supplied interrogators and linguists. And I was advised by General Smith that there were maybe a total of 40.

MCCAIN: Now, were they in charge of the interrogations?

SMITH: Thirty-seven interrogators, and...

WARNER: The witnesses voice are not being recorded. You'll have to speak into your microphone.

Would you repeat the conversation in response to the senator's question?

SMITH: Yes, sir. There were 37 interrogators that were...

MCCAIN: I'm asking who was in charge of the interrogations.

SMITH: They were not in charge. They were interrogators.

MCCAIN: My question is who was in charge of the interrogations?

SMITH: The brigade commander for the military intelligence brigade.

MCCAIN: And were they -- did he also have authority over the guards?

SMITH: Sir, he was -- he had tactical control over the guards, so he was...

MCCAIN: Mr. Secretary, you can't answer these questions?

RUMSFELD: I can. I'd be -- I thought the purpose of the question was to make sure we got an accurate presentation, and we have the expert here who was in the chain of command.

MCCAIN: I think these are fundamental questions to this issue.

RUMSFELD: Fine.

MCCAIN: Were the instructions to the guards...

RUMSFELD: There's two sets of responsibilities, as your question suggests. One set is the people who have the responsibility for managing the detention process; they are not interrogators. The military intelligence people, as General Smith has indicated, were the people who were in charge of the interrogation part of the process.

And the responsibility, as I have reviewed the matter, shifted over a period of time and the general is capable of telling you when that responsibility shifted.

MCCAIN: What were the instructions to the guards?

RUMSFELD: That is what the investigation that I have indicated has been undertaken...

MCCAIN: Mr. Secretary...

RUMSFELD: ... is determining...

MCCAIN: ... that's a very simple, straight-forward question.

RUMSFELD: Well, the -- as the chief of staff of the Army can tell you, the guards are trained to guard people. They're not trained to interrogate, they're not -- and their instructions are to, in the case of Iraq, adhere to the Geneva Convention.

The Geneva Conventions apply to all of the individuals there in one way or another. They apply to the prisoners of war, and they are written out and they're instructed and the people in the Army train them to that and the people in the Central Command have the responsibility of seeing that, in fact, their conduct is consistent with the Geneva Conventions.

The criminals in the same detention facility are handled under a different provision of the Geneva Convention -- I believe it's the fourth and the prior one's the third.

MCCAIN: So the guards were instructed to treat the prisoners, under some kind of changing authority as I understand it, according to the Geneva Conventions?

RUMSFELD: Absolutely.

MCCAIN: I thank you, Mr. Chairman.

WARNER: Thank you, Senator.