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Do you think Jesus died a virgin?

 
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 05:08 pm
Lola wrote:
You can joke about me if you like, Steissd. I won't call it blasphemy. I've very benevolent that way.

Dsy,

oui, tu. Come on, dish it out.


What is the special pleasure people get out of dissing God? I mean to some people their faith is the most precious thing to them in this life, and some of you seem to take pleasure in wiping your asses on it. Does it make you feel especially important, or particularly witty?
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steissd
 
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Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 05:17 pm
That is exactly what I wanted to say. Thanks, Snood.
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Ethel2
 
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Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 05:40 pm
Sorry, Snood. I forgot you were here. But you can joke about me and my beliefs if you want to. I won't be offended.
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Ethel2
 
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Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 05:44 pm
I do feel we should be able to joke about religion if we want to though. However, I hate it that you're offended. Maybe I should start a thread, "Religious Joking, all who are offended be advised." Would that help, do you think?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 06:10 pm
I enjoy dodging the lightning bolts.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 06:15 pm
steissd wrote:
Craven de Kere wrote:
I do not think Jesus was the son of God, you do.

Well, in such a case we cannot argue; our basic approaches are so much different, that it will be impossible to find a compromise on anything pertaining to religion.
By the way, I though that you were a Roman Catholic, since you mentioned somewhere that you were Brazilian by origin. And Roman Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is God the Son...


I never said I was Brazilian (I'm not). I'm also not Catholic.

I used to be a believer, when I was I did not find this speculation untoward and I did believe that Jesus was both the son of God and that he had sex.
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Letty
 
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Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 06:26 pm
untoward...there's that word again...love it...hey, no apologies...
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steissd
 
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Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 06:37 pm
CdK, not just Son of God, but God the Son, i.e. the Deity per se. Feel the difference.
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husker
 
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Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 08:08 pm
Lola are you blond? Rolling Eyes Embarrassed Rolling Eyes
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 08:13 pm
Yeah, yeah - three in one, like a shamrock. What's the point of having a Messiah, if they are not capable of the same frailties as anyone else? How else are they going to give guidance if they are so perfect that such concepts are beyond them?
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 08:32 pm
steissd wrote:
CdK, not just Son of God, but God the Son, i.e. the Deity per se. Feel the difference.


Steissd,

Were he to have had sex would anything have been wrong? I am not really addressing the issues of the trinity etc. Man was made in God's image, God's first commandment to man was to have sex, so I do not see how the idea of Jesus, in his human incarnation, having sex would negate any portion of the Bible or debunk or defile the belief in any way.

Like I said, I was an avid believer and I never had a problem with this concept. It's not meant to challenge the belief.
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steissd
 
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Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 12:06 pm
CdK, God ordered people to have sex for procreation purposes. Jesus Christ did not have offspring (if he had, such a fact is unlikely to be overlooked by the Gospels). He has never been married either, and as far as I know neither Judaism nor Christianity encourage sex out of wedlock. Of course, laymen have sex for recreational purposes and not always with their wives/husbands (this is sinful, butpeople are not perfect), but do not you think that the Savior was special, not like all the regular people? Besides this, He is God the Son, hence, He is perfect, unlike us.
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maxsdadeo
 
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Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 12:19 pm
CdK wrote:
Quote:
Were he to have had sex would anything have been wrong?


You mean, other than breaking a commandment?

I am curious, did you come to the conclusion of Jesus's having had sex before, or after you fell from the faith? ( Or however you might refer to it...)
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steissd
 
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Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 12:46 pm
I think, I understand where does this assumption of Jesus Christ's involvement in actions He in principle could not be involved in, come from. It originates, IMO, from uncritical acceptance of the pagan ancient Greek and Roman myths. The pagan "gods" really act like people: they abduct women, have sex with them, some of these "gods" are even involved in the same sex relationships that are prohibited by both Judo-Christian and Islamic monotheistic systems. Well, Greek and Roman mythology may be accepted as a culturological phenomenon, it may be a source of inspiration for artists, but it seems to me that it cannot be any more regarded as a theological source; just like fairy tales or J.R.R. Tolkien's books cannot be.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:07 pm
steissd wrote:
I think, I understand where does this assumption of Jesus Christ's involvement in actions He in principle could not be involved in, come from. It originates, IMO, from uncritical acceptance of the pagan ancient Greek and Roman myths. The pagan "gods" really act like people: they abduct women, have sex with them, some of these "gods" are even involved in the same sex relationships that are prohibited by both Judo-Christian and Islamic monotheistic systems. Well, Greek and Roman mythology may be accepted as a culturological phenomenon, it may be a source of inspiration for artists, but it seems to me that it cannot be any more regarded as a theological source; just like fairy tales or J.R.R. Tolkien's books cannot be.


I think the assumption comes from something much less dignified, Steissed.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:15 pm
steissd wrote:
Jesus Christ did not have offspring (if he had, such a fact is unlikely to be overlooked by the Gospels). He has never been married either, and as far as I know neither Judaism nor Christianity encourage sex out of wedlock. Of course, laymen have sex for recreational purposes and not always with their wives/husbands (this is sinful, butpeople are not perfect), but do not you think that the Savior was special, not like all the regular people? Besides this, He is God the Son, hence, He is perfect, unlike us.


No I do not think Jesus was special. I think that if it's that enjoyable and if there is a creator he would not have done it without the intent for it to be enjoyed.

People discourage sex out of marriage. No it is not sinful (just to counter the fact that you think your opinion about what other people do is God-given somehow).

He was not perfect, the Bible is quite clear on that. He lost his temper, he doubted God (when God put him to the test on the cross).

I don't really want to go into this too much but I think you are inserting much of your own beliefs into the religion. Much of what you state is not explicitly stated in the Bible.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:19 pm
maxsdadeo wrote:
CdK wrote:
Quote:
Were he to have had sex would anything have been wrong?


You mean, other than breaking a commandment?

I am curious, did you come to the conclusion of Jesus's having had sex before, or after you fell from the faith? ( Or however you might refer to it...)


Before.

And the commendments were broken many times, often on God's direct orders. Once Jesus came around they were negated by his laws. "all the law is fulfilled in this.." Remember?

But in any case ven if that weren't so Jesus having sex does not break any of the 10 commandments unless he or his partner were married and not to each other.

The 10 commandments mention adultury, not pre-marital sex. A rule about adultury has a reason, you don't want them fellas killing each other over their wives. The 10 commandments do not forbid sex, they forbid sex or the consideration of sex with someone who is "taken".

Below are the 10 commandments. I made bold the one Jesus broke all the time to pick corn or whatnot.

Quote:
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
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New Haven
 
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Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:24 pm
If Jesus was the Son of God, then he didn't die period. Virgin or not.
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steissd
 
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Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:28 pm
Of course, he did not. Otherwise, we were unable to refer to Trinity.
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Craven de Kere
 
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Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:31 pm
Sigh, I am reminded of angels on pins and think I am somehow responsible for it.
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