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Open Letter to Bubba

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 09:52 pm
It isn't that I disagree with you per se; just have serious doubts that it will end as well as the last one did. It has already cost far, far more, in terms of money and lives.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 12:38 pm
timberlandko wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
He thinks differently than does Anderson, and so do I. One of the things my kid thinks about, and worries about, is that America might be persuaded to abandon the Iraqis just as she was persuded to abandon the Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians a generation ago.


That is, unfortunately, one of the problems with invading other nations. At some point, unless you kill them all and replace them with your own people, you will have to leave.

Poppycock - argumentum ad absurdam and false dillema/undistributed middle. In Iraq, a few thousand murderous thugs hold hostage a nation of millions. When the Iraqi people achieve the capacity to ensure their own security, to protect themselves from the thugs, there will be neither need for nor presence of an occupying security force.

Yesterday I heard the president say in his speech,"as the Iraqis stand up the US forces will stand down."

Can you explain how that message differs to any significant extent from the Nixon/Rumsfeld "Vietnamization plan"?

To attribute the problems in Iraq to "a few thousand murderous thugs" after nearly three years of treading water is overlooking the undercurrent of ethnic religious and cultural problems that provide fuel for the continued conflict and more fitting to be called "Poppycock - argumentum ad absurdam".


timberlandko wrote:
Had The US not abandoned Southeast Asia, Pol Pot's murderous thugs would not have had opportunity to perpetrate their atrocities. John Kerry's legacy? Look to The Killing Fields.


John Kerry's legacy?

Quote:
ROBERT ELLSWORTH, NATO Ambassador 1969-'71: By the middle '60s, Rumsfeld could see that we were not figuring out a strategy to win in Vietnam. Neither could we figure out a strategy to withdraw.

NARRATOR: Rumsfeld's persistent pushing to get the troops out quicker put him at odds with the president. Secret audiotapes revealed the president's unhappiness.

Pres. RICHARD M. NIXON: But on Rumsfeld, we've done a hell of lot for Rumsfeld.

H.R. HALDEMAN: I agree.

Pres. RICHARD M. NIXON: I think Rumsfeld may be not too long for this world.

H.R. HALDEMAN: I sure don't think he's ever going to be a solid member of the ship.

Pres. RICHARD M. NIXON: Well, then let's dump him right after this.


The above quote is an excerpt from the transcript of a PBS special Rumsfeld's War.
Transcript[/u]

The entire program can be viewed online here[/u] and is well worth watching for a refresher as how we managed to get into this current mess.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 01:02 pm
The main difference between the Vietnam debacle and the Iraq endeavor is the leadership. The Dems, Kennedy and Johnson mainly, engineered the Southeast Asian mess, and established a paradigm of Washington/Pentagon micromanagement of the day-to-day operations.

Kerry's legacy? Yes, in that Kerry was among the highly visible leadership of the radical leftist, enemy aiding-and-abeting America Worst crowd that effectively prevented the Nixon administration from adequately and prudently prosecuting the war effort, thereby dooming millions in Southeast Asia to tyranny and oppression and fostering the impression among those dedicated to eradicating freedom and liberty that The US lacked the resolve to fulfill its obligations and stand up to opposition.

The American Left of a generation ago, along with its consequent Carter and Clinton administrations, bears chief responsibility for the current danger posed to civilization by the so-called radical Islamic fundamentalists and their allied thugs. We are at war with the jihadists, who count among their supporters, enablers, and allies the Anti-Bush, Anti-US, Anti-War dupes who blithely carry their water.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 01:10 pm
And Nixon was faultless. He he.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 01:12 pm
Didn't say, or even imply, that at all, edgar - Nixon's faults are not at dispute. That in no way changes things.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 02:07 pm
timberlandko wrote:
The main difference between the Vietnam debacle and the Iraq endeavor is the leadership. The Dems, Kennedy and Johnson mainly, engineered the Southeast Asian mess, and established a paradigm of Washington/Pentagon micromanagement of the day-to-day operations.

Kerry's legacy? Yes, in that Kerry was among the highly visible leadership of the radical leftist, enemy aiding-and-abeting America Worst crowd that effectively prevented the Nixon administration from adequately and prudently prosecuting the war effort, thereby dooming millions in Southeast Asia to tyranny and oppression and fostering the impression among those dedicated to eradicating freedom and liberty that The US lacked the resolve to fulfill its obligations and stand up to opposition.

The American Left of a generation ago, along with its consequent Carter and Clinton administrations, bears chief responsibility for the current danger posed to civilization by the so-called radical Islamic fundamentalists and their allied thugs. We are at war with the jihadists, who count among their supporters, enablers, and allies the Anti-Bush, Anti-US, Anti-War dupes who blithely carry their water.


Timber, you are hilarious!! God you're funny!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 02:09 pm
I didn't see any response there to my question.

mesquite wrote:
Yesterday I heard the president say in his speech,"as the Iraqis stand up the US forces will stand down."

Can you explain how that message differs to any significant extent from the Nixon/Rumsfeld "Vietnamization plan"?


Yes, MacNamara was a micromanager. Do you think Rumsfeld is not?

Quote:
BOB WOODWARD: And then the war planning, there are endless sessions, you know, hours and hours of Franks and Rumsfeld, and Franks and Rumsfeld with the NSC or with President Bush, going through the details, and charts and slides and these are the assumptions and this is how many troops we might send. It might take 90 days here, or we're going to try to get it down to 30. It's the kind of microscopic detail that's reviewed at the Rumsfeld level. It's quite astonishing.

THOMAS RICKS, The Washington Post: But Franks wants still several hundred thousand troops to go in. And Rumsfeld has this process where he kind of chips away and chips away at this belief, asking questions, "Why do you need that? Why do you need that?" The Pentagon dubs this the "iterative process." But really, I think it's more a process of erosion.

NARRATOR: Some thought it had about it the echo of earlier civilian involvement, like the role civilians played in planning and operations in Vietnam.

THOMAS RICKS: I've heard stories again and again of Rumsfeld actually crossing off individual units from deployment plans, saying, "You really don't need this. You don't need this."

NARRATOR: Finally, after a few months, Rumsfeld's persistence began to pay off. Franks, who declined to be interviewed for this program, was wavering.

THOMAS RICKS: The Army looks upon this process, I think, with a little bit of horror during that period of war plan formation. I remember one day the general said to me, "Tommy's drunk the Kool-Aid." And that meant, "Yeah, Franks had gone over to kind of the belief in a smaller, narrower force."


Rumsfeld's War[/u]

Newsflash! This just in! Pre-invasion Iraq was not a haven for radical islamic fundamentalists. That was Afghanistan were the cleanup was far from accomplished when this incompetent administration changed course and diverted resources to their preferred target.

The biggest enabling event for the jihadists was the invasion of Iraq. The big question is what to do about it now.

It is just as easy to suggest that those carrying Bush's water are acting as "supporters, enablers, and allies" of the jihadists.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 02:48 pm
Not my fault The Left is dead wrong on this and can't/won't recognize, accept, and address their error. Fortunately for civilization, The Left is doing its utmost to, and succeeding at, further marginalizing itself and aiding the cause of consolidating their opposition's power and influence. All politics follow pendulum swings; the current direction eventually will reverse - though not for a long while yet.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 03:31 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Not my fault The Left is dead wrong on this and can't/won't recognize, accept, and address their error. Fortunately for civilization, The Left is doing its utmost to, and succeeding at, further marginalizing itself and aiding the cause of consolidating their opposition's power and influence. All politics follow pendulum swings; the current direction eventually will reverse - though not for a long while yet.


You act like the right wing is thundering to landslide victories. Let me remind you it came down to one little horseshit state like Ohio to decide the entire Presidential election. You ARE NOT working with some kind of mandate ... the public as a whole don't think much of your massive right wing PNAC inspired screwup. They care less for the idiocy in which it has been executed, not to mention the boatload of lies it took to get it all rolling! If Bush had been paying more attention to AlQueda and less to the PNAC wetdream of invading Iraq and controlling the Mideast from the U.S., the Towers would probably still be standing. Bush certainly had enough tips and warnings. Just because AlQueda didn't send him a memo has to the exact time and date doesn't mean we shouldn't have been prepared ... we knew the threat was there, and it was imminent!

The right wing is it's own worst enemy ... the horrible left told you this would be a buttf..k from the very start, and that's exactly what it has turned out to be. We had to go along with it or be labeled traitors by the warmongers who stood to cash in, but you were warned!! It's about time you took responsibility for it and cleaned up your own stinking mess!!

Start by impeaching that embarrassment of a President!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 03:44 pm
No thundering victory chant Anon - just pointing out The Left has bought into a losing program. I disagree that Iraq is the mess you are determined to see it as, I disagree that the overall War on Terror is being mismanaged, and while you may not see a mandate, I do - not specifically at the Executive level, perhaps (though a win backed up by another win augmented with legislative representation pickups works for me as a mandate), but across the spectrum of local, county, state, Congressional, and Senatorial elections over the past several years. I expect that over the next couple national election cycles, the "No Mandate" plaint of the Dems will be shown to be as empty and wrong as just about everything else they've managed to get themselves behind since '98. The Dem's penchant for objecting, obstructing, and obfuscating is working well for the Republicans.


Addendum: Not to say The Republicans are any paragon, nor to deny they have plenty of their own faults and shortcomings; just to say the Republicans and their current agenda beat helloutta anything the current Democratic Party Leadership represents.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 04:10 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Not my fault The Left is dead wrong on this and can't/won't recognize, accept, and address their error. Fortunately for civilization, The Left is doing its utmost to, and succeeding at, further marginalizing itself and aiding the cause of consolidating their opposition's power and influence. All politics follow pendulum swings; the current direction eventually will reverse - though not for a long while yet.


Not sure if you were responding to me here or not as there was not much indication of it.

I do agree on the pendulum swings. Whenever one party gains absolute control things go to hell in a hand basket rather quickly. Nothing like a few checks and balances to keep them honest. Right now the superstition laden extremists on the right are the ones that put us in this pot.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 04:43 pm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/11/12/2002086301.jpg

Pike County, Ky. -- BATTLE SCARS: The photo of the ?'Marlboro Man' in Fallujah became a symbol of the Iraq conflict when it ran in newspapers across America in 2004. Now the soldier has returned home to Kentucky,where he battles the demons of post-traumatic stress



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The photograph hit the world on Nov. 10, 2004: a close-cropped shot of a U.S. Marine in Iraq, his face smeared with blood and dirt, a cigarette dangling from his lips, smoke curling across weary eyes.
It was an instant icon, with Dan Rather calling it "the best war photograph in recent years." About 100 newspapers ran the photo, dubbing the anonymous warrior the "Marlboro Man."

The man in the photograph is James Blake Miller, now 21, and he is an icon, although in ways Rather probably never imagined.

He's quieter now -- easier to anger. He turns to fight at the sound of a backfire, can't look at fireworks without thinking of fire raining down on a city. He has trouble sleeping, and when he does, his fingers twitch on invisible triggers.

The diagnosis: post-traumatic stress disorder.

His life in Kentucky, before and after the clicking shutter, says as much about hundreds of thousands of new American war veterans as his famous photograph said about that one bad day in Fallujah -- a photo Miller cannot see as an icon.

"I don't see a whole lot," he said. "I see a day I won't care to remember, but that I'll never forget."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Blake Miller was born in Pike County in the hills of eastern Kentucky, where Daniel Boone is said to have walked and where moonshine is still consumed. An average family here makes about $24,000; the only decent-paying jobs are down at the coal mine.
Miller got his first name from his father, who got it from his and back into family history. But folks called him Blake, the middle name his parents heard on the television show "Dynasty."

His paternal grandfather was a Marine in '53; a heavy smoker, like most of the men in the family, he died of cancer before he was 40. The man Miller grew up calling "Papaw" was his grandmother's second husband, an Army vet of Vietnam.

Sometimes, Papaw would get crying drunk and start telling the story about the boy who came into the camp in Vietnam one night, and how they had to shoot him. Then he would stop speaking, and look at the little boys hanging on his every word. "You've had enough, Joe Lee," his wife would say then. "It's time to go to bed."

"It wasn't that he liked to drink -- that was how he dealt with it," Miller said.

Miller grew up in Jonancy, a tiny hamlet 20 miles from the county seat of Pikeville. He got his first job -- washing cars at the local auto dealership -- at age 13, about a year after he took up smoking.

Before long, he began working in a body shop, where the owner told him the most extraordinary thing: Miller could get his auto body repair certification for free -- just by joining the military. A Marine recruiter offered more: insurance, housing, college money.

"I thought, 'Well, damn, that's amazing,' " Miller said. "Hell, here I am, 18 years old -- I can have all this in the palm of my hands just by giving them four years."

Following his grandfather's footsteps, he went infantry, and left for boot camp in November 2002. Four months later, the war in Iraq broke out.

"Before I knew it," Miller said, "I was thrown into the mix without even thinking about it."

Miller was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment of the 2nd Marine Division, based in Camp Lejeune, N.C.

"Right before we got ready to leave for Iraq, I guess I was a little nervous. I started smoking more -- I went from about a pack-and-a-half a day to 2 1/2 packs a day," he said. "When we got to Iraq ... I was smoking 5 1/2 packs."



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For a while, Iraq didn't seem all that bad. Miller and his fellow Marines settled into a routine in Anbar province in western Iraq, setting up hiding places among the palms and sand, and watching for the white pickups that insurgents would use to plant bombs and fire mortars.
There also was time for candy and laughter with the Iraqi children who came running to see the American troops. Miller felt like he was helping.

Then, on Nov. 5, 2004, in the middle of a sandstorm, the Marines got the word that they might be heading for an assault on Fallujah -- at the time, the capital of the Iraqi insurgency.

No American forces had gone inside the city in months. And now Miller would be among the first. He had been a Marine for less than two years.

"It puts butterflies in my stomach right now," he said. "I don't know if you can describe it. I don't think words can."

The days before the assault were an intense blur of training, preparation and fear. But there was one bright spot, when Miller ran into a good friend in the chow hall -- Demarkus Brown, a 22-year-old from Virginia.

Miller met Brown in infantry school, when the smiling African American introduced himself to the white Kentucky native with a grinning, "What's up, cracker?"

Miller quickly realized Brown didn't mean the word seriously -- didn't mean much of anything seriously. Brown liked to party all hours and go dancing, then call Miller to come pick him up.

"It didn't matter what you told him or how s -- ty it was," Miller said. "He was always the one guy who had a smile on his face."

But one thing Brown took seriously was music: He loved raves and techno music, and Miller played bluegrass on bass and guitar. Their styles somehow harmonized, and they became close friends.

Now they were together outside Fallujah.

The night before U.S. forces went into the city, Miller gathered with his fellow Marines and led them by memory through a passage from the Bible, John 14:2-3.

"In my Father's house, there are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I leave this place and go there to prepare a place for you, so that where I may be, you may be also."

The assault on Fallujah began Nov. 8, 2004, when U.S. planes, using a combination of high explosives and burning white phosphorus, hammered the city in advance of the artillery push. Miller was under fire from the moment he stepped out of the personnel carrier.

It lasted into Nov. 9 -- the day that, for a while, would make Miller's face the most famous in Iraq.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Miller remembers that day, he was on a rooftop taking fire and calling for support on his radio - a 20-pound piece of equipment that he had to lug around along with nine extra batteries, hundreds of extra rounds of ammunition, and a couple of cartons of cigarettes.
As insurgent bullets from a nearby building pinged off the roof, a horrified Miller heard footsteps coming up the stairs behind him. He raised his rifle -- and barely had time to halt when he saw it was embedded Los Angeles Times photographer Luis Sinco.

Miller returned to his radio, guiding two tanks to his position. When they opened fire, he said, the thunder left his body numb -- but the building housing the attackers had collapsed. Later, he said, they would find about 40 bodies in the rubble.

"I was never so happy in all my life to take that handset away from my head," Miller said. "I lit up a f -- cigarette."

His ear was bleeding from the sound of the tank firing -- Miller still can't hear out of his right ear. His nose bled from a nick he took when his rifle scope and radio got tangled up midfire. He looked at the sunrise and wondered how many more of those he would see.

He was vaguely aware that elsewhere on the rooftop, Sinco was taking pictures.

At a briefing the next day, Miller's gunnery sergeant walked up to him, grinning, and said: "Would you believe you're the most famous f -- Marine in the Marine Corps right now? Believe it or not, your ugly mug just went all over the U.S."

The Marines wanted to pull him out of Fallujah at that point, Miller said, not wanting the very public poster boy to die in combat. But he stayed.

He won't talk about the weeks that followed. He only mentions moments, like still frames from a film. The day his column barely survived an ambush, escaping through a broken door as bullets struck near their feet. The morning he woke up to discover that a cat had taken up residence in the open chest cavity of an Iraqi body nearby, consuming it from within.

The day he discovered that Demarkus Brown had been killed.

"When we found out, I told a couple of my buddies who were close to him, too. We just sat around, and we didn't say much at all," Miller said. "You didn't have the heart to cry."

But it wasn't those terrible benchmarks that affected him the most, Miller said. It was the daily chore of war: the times he had to raise his rifle, peer through the scope and squeeze the trigger to launch a bullet, not at a target, not at a distant white truck, but at another human being.

"It's one thing to be shot at, and you shoot a couple rounds back, just trying to suppress somebody else," Miller said. "It's another thing when you see a human being shooting a round at you, knowing that you're shooting back with the intent to kill them. You're looking through a scope at somebody. It's totally different. You can make out a guy's eyes."



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When Miller returned to America, he brought back a big duffel bag packed with numerous letters and gifts from those who had seen his photo. It was only later that he discovered he'd brought home some of the war, too.
None of the Marines talked much about the strain that war puts on one's emotions, Miller said. The "wizards" -- military psychologists -- gave the returning troops a briefing on the subject, but nobody paid much attention. Even guys who were taking antidepressants to help them sleep didn't think much about the long-term consequences.

"What the hell are those people going to do once they get out? They ride it out until they get an honorable discharge, and then they're never diagnosed with anything," Miller said. "How the hell are you going to do anything for them after that? And that's how so many of these guys are ending up on the damn streets."

Miller dismissed the early signs, too. When he and his buddies reacted to a truck backfire by dropping into a combat stance and raising imaginary rifles, well, that was to be expected. And when his wife, Jessica -- the childhood sweetheart whom Miller had married in June -- told him he was tightening his arm around her neck in the night, that was strange, but he figured it would pass. So would the nightmares he began to have about Iraq, things that had happened, things that hadn't.

Then one day, while visiting his wife at her college dorm in Pikeville, Miller looked out the window and clearly saw the body of an Iraqi sprawled out on the sidewalk. He turned away.

"I said, 'Look, honey, I just got to get out of here.' I couldn't even tell her at the time what had happened," he said. "(I thought), 'Well, that's it. That's my little spaz I'm supposed to have that the psychiatrists were talking about ... I'm glad I got it out of the way."

But he hadn't. Jessica, a psychology student, tried to help with a visualization technique. But when he looked inside himself, Miller found a kind of demonic door guarded by a twisted figure in a black cloak. Under the cloak's hood, he spotted the snarling face of the teufelhund, a Marine Corps icon -- the devil dog.

"So I come out again, without closing the door," he said. "After all this happened, my nightmares started getting a lot f -- ing worse."

Finally, Miller went to a military psychiatrist, who diagnosed him with signs of post-traumatic stress disorder. Miller thought that meant he could not be deployed. But in early September, he joined a group of Marines headed to police New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

"I really didn't want to go. ... There was a possibility we would be shooting people," he said. "We could be going into another (urban warfare) environment just like Iraq, except this would actually be U.S. citizens.

"Here we go, Fallujah 2, right here in the states."

Not long after they arrived, as Hurricane Rita bore down on them, the Marines were packed into the amphibious assault ship Iwo Jima to wait out the storm offshore. And one day, as Miller headed for the smoke deck with a Marlboro, a passing sailor made a whistling sound just like a rocket-propelled grenade.

"I don't remember grabbing him. I don't remember putting him against the bulkhead. I don't remember getting him down on the floor. I don't remember getting on top of him. I don't remember doing any of that s -- ," Miller said. "That was like the last straw."

On Nov. 10, 2005 -- the Marine Corps' 230th birthday and one year to the day after the Marlboro Man picture appeared in the Los Angeles Times, Miller was honorably discharged after a medical review. His military career was over.



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Miller returned to eastern Kentucky, the place he had spent years trying to escape. He wanted the familiarity and safety of the people and land he'd known since birth.
"Maybe it made me think twice about what I had lost," he said. "What I was really missing."

In a way, though, his family is still missing Blake Miller -- the Miller who left Kentucky for Iraq a couple of years ago.

The man who left was easygoing, quick to laugh, happy to sit in a relative's house and eat and smoke and talk. The man who came back is quick to anger, they say, and is quiet. He still smiles often but does not easily laugh.

And when he takes a seat in his adoptive grandmother's home, amid her collection of ceramic Christ figurines, it is in a chair that faces the door.

Mildred Childers, who owns those figurines, sees Miller's difficulties as a crisis of faith. She still remembers Miller's call just before the assault on Fallujah, and his terrible question: "How can people go to church and be a Christian and kill people in Iraq?"

"He was raised where that's one of the Ten Commandments, do not kill," she said. "I think it's hard for a soldier to go to war and have that embedded in them from small children up, and you go over there and you've got to do it to stay alive."

Recently, some of his Marine buddies have been calling Miller up, crying drunk, and remembering their war experiences. Just like Papaw Joe Lee used to do when Miller was a boy.

"There's a lot of Vietnam vets ... they don't heal until 30, 40 years down the road," Miller said. "People bottle it up, become angry, easily temperamental, and hell, before you know it, these are the people who are snapping on you."

Jessica interrupted. "You're already like that," she said.

She recalled her own first glimpse of the Marlboro Man -- an image seen through tears of relief that he was alive, and misery at how worn he looked.

"Some people thought it was sexy, and we thought, 'Oh, my God, he's in the middle of a war, close to death.' We just couldn't understand how some people could look at it like that," she said. "But I guess for some people it was glory, like patriotism."

She looked at her quiet husband through the smoke drifting from his right hand.

"But when it comes out and there's actually a personality behind that picture, and that personality, he has to deal with all the war, and all he's done, people don't want to know how hard it actually is," she said.

"This is the dark side of the reality of war. ... People don't want to know the Marlboro Man has PTSD."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miller stood outside his father's home in Jonancy, looking over the beaten mobile homes, the rows of corn, potatoes and cabbage. For a change, he wasn't smoking - he's down to a pack-and-a-half a day.
"There ain't a goddamn thing around here," he said. "My whole life, all I did was watch my old man bust his ass."

It was why he joined the Marines -- why part of him wishes he could go back.

"My whole life, all I've ever known is working on cars, doing body work, cutting grass, manual labor, you know? It was something different," he said. "You always hear those commercials -- it's not just a job, it's an adventure. It was, you know?"

On the other hand, Miller isn't sure he'd want to go back to combat -- nor sure he'd ever let any kid of his enlist. He has mixed feelings about the oversize copy of the Marlboro Man picture proudly displayed in the lobby of the Marine recruiting station in Pikeville.

Some of his relatives and friends are against the war; others see it as a fight against terrorism.

Miller himself seems torn -- proud of the troops fighting for freedom, but wondering whether there was a peaceful way, to find terrorists in Iraq without invading.

There was no time for such questions in Fallujah. But now, at night, when he can't sleep, Miller thinks of the men he saw through his rifle scope, and wonders: Were they terrorists fighting against America? Or men fighting to protect their homes?

"I mean, how would we feel if they came over and started something here?" he asked. "I'm glad that I fought for my country. But looking back on it, I wouldn't do it all over again."

It helps, sometimes, to talk about it -- last week, Miller did what he hopes other veterans do: He had his first visit with a Veterans Administration counselor.

"I've got my whole life ahead of me," he said. "I'm too young to lay down and quit; too young to let anything beat me."

Down the road, Miller hopes to start a business. For now, he is waiting for his disability benefits to kick in. Maybe then, he and Jessica can afford the big wedding they had always wanted. She already has her white wedding dress. He still intends to wear his Marine Corps blues.



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Veterans and stress
Post-traumatic stress disorder is an ailment resulting from exposure to an experience involving direct or indirect threat of serious injury or death. Symptoms include recurrent thoughts of a traumatic event, reduced involvement in work or outside interests, hyper alertness, anxiety and irritability.

About 317,000 veterans diagnosed with the disorder were treated at Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers and clinics in fiscal year 2005. Nearly 19,000 veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were seen for the disorder in veterans' medical centers and Vet Centers from fiscal year 2002 to 2005.

A recent study of soldiers and Marines who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan found that about 17 percent met criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, or generalized anxiety disorder. Of those whose responses were positive for a mental disorder, 40 percent or fewer actually received help while on active duty
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 04:56 pm
Anybody who enjoys, applauds, and celebrates war is a fool. Anyone surprised that those who have experienced war might experience negative repercussions from the experience not only is a fool but also is a fool who has never experienced war.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:09 pm
Are you ready to go to war with Iran?
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:09 pm
Well Timber ... as they continue to splatter soldiers from one road to the next, we'll see how long you continue to love your war. As the Iraqi's close in on civil war, which I called two years ago, we'll see how much you love your war. As the Shiite majority cozies up to Iran,and solidifies it's hold on Iraq, using the brand spanky new constitution that calls for Iraq to be an Islamic Theocracy, I hope that you'll feel it was worth the half a trillion it is costing, not to mention the dead and the wounded!

Amigo posted the new "Marboro Man" ... get ready for an entire generation of these kids. I hope you live long enough to have to watch their pain!

I've spent the better part of my adult life disabled because of the venal lying warmongers of America ... don't ever expect me to break into Kumbaya over the campfire and celebrate with the stupid and the ignorant who are manipulated by the incredibily evil who would wage war for world control and profit!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:19 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Anybody who enjoys, applauds, and celebrates war is a fool. Anyone surprised that those who have experienced war might experience negative repercussions from the experience not only is a fool but also is a fool who has never experienced war.


As if being in the miltary gives one a balanced view of war. Ever figure out why we don't let the generals decide when and how to go to war?

Only a fool would constantly parrot the line: "Anyone who disagrees with me is a fool."
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:21 pm
Amigo wrote:
Are you ready to go to war with Iran?


I doubt that he is but he might want to send others in.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:22 pm
Doesn't appear to me me you caught the meaning of what I posted there, or, at any rate, even if you did catch the meaning, your response is completely non sequitur.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:30 pm
I most assuredly hope war with Iran may be avoided - and I see some reason to expect it may be. However, I am quite ready to do what is necessary if, when, and as it becomes necessary.

It is cheapshot straw man argument to contend I, or anyone else, for that matter, "love" the war in Iraq, but I expect nothing better from the quarter wherefrom such calumny issues; it is their stock in trade.

I strongly suspect the purported nascent "Iraqi Civil War" being celebrated by some will prove as great a disappointment to the gleeful doomcriers as have the rest of their politico-economic prognostications over the past decade.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:32 pm
Timber,
The one on here saying there will be war with Iran or that there will be a civil war in Iraq is the same person that has admitted that he laughs when American soldiers die,and who actively wants more Americans to die.
He admitted it,so do you really think that he wants peace in the ME?

He wants our soldiers to die.
0 Replies
 
 

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