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the UK and it's four parts

 
 
dov1953
 
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 01:03 pm
Laughing I want the whole truth and nothing but the truth! I want to know if the four "countries" that make up the UK; England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, are legally countries or something else. Are they like American states, or counties, or what. I'm an Anglophile and after years of reading about British history, I still have been unable to determine this simple fact.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,584 • Replies: 17
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 04:23 pm
Well, "the whole truth" can't be answered in one single sentence.

Since you read for years British history, you certainly know that the United Kingdom is a monarchy and the United States of America are a federal republic.

So this is the first and, IMHO, most important political difference.

You know the Britsih history. So you may have noticed, how Britain became a kingdom/state, as it is nowadays.

A quotation from britannica.com re the atcual status:
Quote:
Regional government

Within the United Kingdom, national assemblies in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland took power in 1999 and assumed some powers previously held exclusively by the central Parliament at Westminster, to which they remained subordinate. The centralParliament retains full legislative and executive control over England, which lacks a separate regional assembly. Scotland's Parliament has wide powers over such matters as health, education, housing, transport, the environment, and agriculture. It also has the power to increase or decrease the British income tax rate within Scotland by up to three percentage points. The central Parliament retains responsibility for foreign affairs, defense, social security, and overall economic policy. Unlike the members of the House of Commons, members of the Scottish Parliament are chosen under a system of proportional representation. Scotland has a distinct legal system based on Roman law. Since 1999 Wales has also had its own assembly, but, becauseit has neither legislative nor tax-gathering powers, the Welsh assembly is significantly less powerful than the Scottish Parliament. It does, however, broadly administer the same services as the Scottish Parliament, albeit within a legislative framework set by Westminster. Like Scottish legislators, members of the Welsh assembly are elected byproportional representation. The Northern Ireland Assembly gained limited legislative and executive power at the end of 1999. Its members, like those of the other regional assemblies, are elected by proportional representation. It has power over matters concerning agriculture, economic development, education, the environment, health, and social services, but the Westminster government retains control over foreign affairs, defense, general economic policy, taxation, policing, and criminal justice. Divisions between unionist (Protestant) and nationalist (Roman Catholic) factions in the Northern Ireland Assembly, however, have threatened its future. If either faction withdraws from the assembly, the region could return to the system of direct rule by the central government that prevailed in Northern Ireland from 1973 to 1999.


Local government

Each part of the United Kingdom has a distinct system of local government. (For a full account of local government in each part of the United Kingdom, see the discussions of local government in the articles on England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.)Local governments have very few legislative powers and must act within the framework of laws passed by the central Parliament (and by the Scottish Parliament in Scotland). Nevertheless, they do have the power to enact regulations and to levy rates (property taxes) within limits set by the central government. They are funded by the rates that they levy, by fees for services, and by grants from the central government. Local governments in the United Kingdom are responsible for a range of community services, including environmental matters, education, highways and traffic, social services, fire fighting, sanitation, planning, housing, parks and recreation, and elections. In Scotland and Wales regional governments handle some of these functions, and local governments handle the remainder. In Northern Ireland the Northern Ireland Assembly is responsible for many of these functions. The responsibilities of local governments in Northern Ireland are limited to environmental matters, sanitation, and recreation.

Parts of the United Kingdom have as many as three levels, or tiers, of local government, each with its own responsibilities, whereas other areas have only a singletier or two tiers. Throughout England, parish and town councils form the lowest tier of local government. (Parishes are civil subdivisions, usually centred on a village or smalltown, that are distinct from church bodies.) They have the power to assess "precepts" (surcharges) on the local rates and a range of rights and duties, including maintenance of commons, recreational facilities, and environmental quality and participation in the planning process. Community councils perform a similar role in Wales, whereas community councils in Scotland are voluntary and consultative bodies with few statutory powers. This lowest level of local government has no counterpart in Northern Ireland.

The next tier of local government is usually known in England and Northern Ireland as adistrict, borough, or city. In Northern Ireland this is the only level of local government. In Scotland and Wales this second tier is the only one with broad powers over major localgovernment functions. In Wales these local government areas are known as either counties or county boroughs, while in Scotland they are variously known as council areas or local government authorities or, in some cases, cities. In some areas of England this second tier of local government is the only one with broad statutory and administrative powers. These areas are known in England as unitary authorities (sincethey form a single tier of local government above the parishes and towns) or metropolitan boroughs (which are functionally equivalent to unitary authorities but which form part of a larger metropolitan county). In other areas of England, districts, boroughs, and cities form an intermediate tier of local government between the towns and parishes on the one hand and administrative counties on the other. Administrative counties, which cover much of England, are the highest tier of local government where they exist.

In Greater London, boroughs form the lowest tier of local government and are responsible for most local government functions. However, in 2000 a new Greater London Authority (GLA) was established with very limited revenue-gathering powers but with responsibility for public transport, policing, emergency services, the environment, and planning in Greater London as a whole. The GLA consists of a directly elected mayor (a constitutional innovation for the United Kingdom, which had never previously filled any executive post by direct election) and a 25-member assembly elected by proportional representation.

Whereas the administrative counties of England and the counties and county boroughsof Wales have statutory and administrative powers, there are other areas throughout the United Kingdom that are called counties but lack administrative power. In England, metropolitan counties cover metropolitan areas; they serve as geographic and statistical units, but since 1986 their administrative powers have belonged to their constituent metropolitan boroughs. Moreover, in England there is a unit known variously as a ceremonial county or a geographic county. These counties also form geographic and statistical units. In most cases they comprise an administrative county and one or more unitary authorities. In other cases they comprise one or more unitary authorities without an administrative county. Greater London and each of the metropolitan counties also constitute ceremonial and geographic counties. These areas are known as ceremonial counties because each has a lord lieutenant and a high sheriff who serve as the representatives of the monarch in the county and who represent the county at the ceremonial functions of the monarchy.

Finally, every part of the United Kingdom lies within what is known as a historic county.The historic counties have formed geographic and cultural units since the Middle Ages,and they historically had a variety of administrative powers. The Local Government Act of 1888 regularized the administrative powers of counties and reassigned them to new administrative counties with the same names as the historic counties but with different boundaries in some cases. Successive local government reorganizations in the 1970sand '90s redrew the boundaries of administrative units in the United Kingdom so that no remaining administrative unit corresponds directly to a historic county, although many administrative and geographic counties and other local government units carry the names of historic counties. Still, even though they lack administrative power, historic counties remain important cultural units. They serve as a focus for local identity,and cultural institutions, such as sporting associations, are often organized by historic county.


Hope, this helps a little bit.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 05:13 pm
Walter, That helps a whole bunch. Wink Thanks again. c.i.
0 Replies
 
oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 05:26 pm
Ci , I bet you didn't read the first para. of Walters cut and paste.

I didn't read it either and I live there. Still it is said that people often know more of other lands than they do their own.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 05:30 pm
Yes, I did! You'll need to clue me into what you're trying to imply, because it goes way over my hair line. Wink c.i.
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 05:33 pm
that the whole passage is legal tedium CI. The broth of lawyers and civil servants, not globe trotters and residents such as thee and me
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 05:39 pm
Another reason for this division is so the UK can have 4 "national" football teams for the Eurocup and the World Cup, and not one team, like any other nation.
They even have different "local" leagues, to confuse us.
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 05:43 pm
Quite fbaezer, we Brits might be a bit daft but we are not stupid you know
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 07:01 pm
Four football teams. mmmmmmm........I'll need to think about that one! Wink c.i.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2003 11:32 pm
They have in quite a bundle of different (team -) sports own "national teams").

Scotland, however, is the only one to have a "complete set" of professional leagues in footbal - same classification as in England.
(Scotland never ceased to be a nation in history, it just ceased to be a nation state, and even then retained its own legal system, its own church, own money banknotes and its own identity - until today.)
0 Replies
 
dov1953
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 12:19 am
Not to be a moron, and I do appreciate the apparently long time you spent explaining it to me, are the four bodies legally countries or powerful subdivisions of the central government. Why does Scotland practice Roman law? Was it imposed upon them from England? I'm going to print out your excellent answer and read it over a few times. Thanks again.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 12:25 am
I don't think that Scotland is practicing Roman Law these days.

They did so, however, because the haven't been any universities and law students studied on the continent, where Roman Law is common.

This is generally covered in history books quite well. There are numerous websites about it.
A good one for this special question:
A Guide to Scots Law
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 12:41 am
Re your first question.

Difinately they are no 'politically legal' countries/states.
It's a more or les semi-autonomy.

Scotland e.g., is politically still very much attached to England. Scotland and England are supposed to be partners after Act of Union which united the countries in 1707. This meant that the Scottish Parliament at that time agreed to abolish itself and both countries would be governed from the United Kingdom's Parliament in London, England. This Parliament would control their affairs and therefore the Prime Minister of the UK Parliament is their main political leader and still is. An important point to remember is that the 1707 Act of Union has not changed in the course of Scotland getting devolution which means Scotland is politically as attached to England as it been for nearly 300 years.

As said in my response, the UK is no federal republic, thus can't have countries qua definitionem.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 01:05 am
Don't wish to confuse the matter, old boy, but there's a connection between Canada and Australia (and perhaps New Zealand) to the UK. I know we can depend on Walter to provide the correct info for our enlightenment. Wink c.i.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 01:22 am
That's the Commonwealth, c.i., which is a quite different affair.
(It's an association of sovereign states comprising Great Britain and a number of its former dependencies who have chosen to maintain ties of friendship and practical cooperation and who acknowledge the British monarch as symbolic head of their association. More: http://www.commact.org/commonwealth/)
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 02:37 am
Thanks Walter - this is good reading !
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 10:03 am
Walter, I'm getting tired "thanking" you, and I feel a greater obligation. On your next trip to San Francisco, I will treat you to a fantastic dinner and suds. Wink c.i.
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 10:06 am
And if I come as well, make that a fantastic dinner and studs Wink
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