Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

Gels, Cloning humans has been illegal in the US, and I'm not updated on what has happened in other countries. As for the problems associated with cloning, it's what the media has been telling us since cloning became a hot topic. Haven't seen anything to dispute that - yet.

Conjectures all we got!

I haven't ignored anything Rosborn, you answered your question in asking it.

This source of answers to the mysteries of life has no unifying name for its body of knowledge. Various parts of its principal concepts are actually scattered throughout different cultures and countries with no central collection point for the ideas. Because of this, and because many of its ideas are not widely known (often the adherents of these ideas have purposefully withheld them from the public), this school of thought can be referred to as the "secret teachings." But it is not a single school of thought; rather, it's a hodgepodge of concepts from many diverse and often unrelated sources that reveal a very similar view of life and its meaning.

The beginning of consciousness

Science might categorize the secret teachings as metaphysical, meaning "beyond the known laws and observations of physics." Religion might refer to them as mystical, meaning that they belong to a collection of thought considered too mysterious to consider or of dubious origin.

It's interesting to note that the great religions had sects that knew of and ascribed to some or all of the secret teachings. In Islam it was the Sufis; in Judaism, the Kabbalists; in early Christianity, the Gnostics and later, from the Middle Ages through the Reformation to even modern times, the many Christian mystics.

Science, too, has had its adherents to concepts held by the secret teachings. Many quantum physicists have written about theories of life beyond the physically observable. In the field of medicine, doctors have found that some patients, who have been declared dead and later revived have had near-death experiences that confirm many of the concepts found in the secret teachings.

According to the secret teachings, the universe was not first created out of matter, but existed prior to material creation in spirit form. Imagine a consciousness similar to our own, except that this first consciousness was boundless, a Universal Consciousness. This is God. At some point, the Universal Consciousness desired to express itself. It began to conceive, to imagine, and to express Its inner promptings. And so the creation began - light, sound ... eventually stars, galaxies, trees, and rivers. This point in creation was still prior to the physical creation of the universe that science records. This was a realm of thought; no physical forms existed, only thoughts in the consciousness of the Universe. The physical universe had not yet been created.

According to the secret teachings, there came a point in this creation where the Creator's Consciousness desired to bring forth companions, creatures like unto Itself that would share in this expression of life. In order for the creatures to be more than creations, they had to possess individual consciousness and freedom so that they could choose to be companions. Otherwise, they would only have been servants of the Original Consciousness. So within the One Universal Consciousness many individual points of consciousness were awakened and given freedom.

It's important for us to realize that at this point in our existence we did not have physical bodies. All of what has just been described occurred within the Mind of God. Consequently, its "form" resembled that of thought rather than physical objects. In the very beginning we were individual points of consciousness within the one great Universal Consciousness.

At first we were quiet, our wills content to observe the wonders of the spiritual creation as they flowed from the Mind of God. In these early periods we were so much a part of the Creator's Consciousness that we were one with It, virtually indistinguishable from It. However, it wasn't long before some of us began to use our wills and express ourselves. At first, we simply imitated the Creator, but eventually we gained experience, and with experience came knowledge and confidence. Then, we truly began to create on our own, adding new realms to the spiritual creation, much like a second voice adds to a song by singing harmony with the main melody.

This was exactly why we had been created - to share in and contribute to the great expression of life and to be Its companions. To fulfill this purpose we were created in the image of the Creator: consciousness with freedom, capable of conceiving, perceiving, and remembering; capable of communicating directly with the Creator and the other companions.

Consciousness and free will were the greatest qualities given any creation, but they came with equally great responsibility for their use or misuse. Of course, the all-knowing Universal One knew the potential dangers in giving beings complete freedom to do as they desired. However, the potential joy of sharing life with true companions, not servants, was deemed worth the risk. Therefore, each of these new free-willed beings would simply have to learn to take charge of themselves and to subdue harmful desires in order to live in harmony with the other companions and the Creator. To do otherwise would only bring chaos, suffering, and separation.

Rosbourne, at least some minds accept the idea that they can and will cease to exist. But I understand why many people hope for eternal life (in Paradise, of course)

By posing the question your mind accepts the premise thereby answering the question and making any further answer redundant.

Given that many minds/souls do not even survive life, it amazes me that so many people believe that they can survive death. Do they really think that a mind ravished by disease/dementia will be magically restored to full functioning when the body dies?

Mind, people, body and soul ..... if the four of them were in a car that smashed head on into a wall, which would be more likly to survive.
Why would you want to restore a pea to it's pod after the pod has served it's purpose?

Where was that allegedly-immortal soul for the years its owner spent wasting away in a nursing home?

Doug, identical twins ARE naturally occurring clones, since they result from accidental duplication of a fertilized egg, but they certainly do not have identical minds or souls.

In sexual reproduction, a child gets half its genes from its mother (in her egg) and half from its father (in his sperm).... This combination of genes is a fundamental basis for human variation and diversity. In the case of clonal reproduction, all of the cloned child's genes would come from a body cell of a single individual. If I had a clone it would not be my brother, it would be a copy of me.

What would be the point of duplicating your body when it is impossible to duplicate your brain? (DNA does not specify each neural connection but only the general rules for wiring.) In any case, it is the non-transferable memories and experiences throughout life that make you who you are, so your clone would share nothing but your genes. You might just as well have children in the ordinary way. :wink:

The personality of the individual are composed from their genes and their environment. Clones will live in a different environment, so no duplication is possible - in addition to what Terry described above.

Rosbourne, at least some minds accept the idea that they can and will cease to exist. But I understand why many people hope for eternal life (in Paradise, of course)

The personality of the individual are composed from their genes and their environment. Clones will live in a different environment, so no duplication is possible.

In sexual reproduction, a child gets half its genes from its mother (in her egg) and half from its father (in his sperm).... This combination of genes is a fundamental basis for human variation and diversity.

Gelisgesti wrote:

In sexual reproduction, a child gets half its genes from its mother (in her egg) and half from its father (in his sperm).... This combination of genes is a fundamental basis for human variation and diversity.

Yes, we know this already. The point is, that when identical twinning occurs, the single genetic cell you are talking about splits into two distinct identical genetic structures; an even better replication than can currently be accomplished with cloning (See Telomeres).

In sexual reproduction, a child gets half its genes from its mother (in her egg) and half from its father (in his sperm).... This combination of genes is a fundamental basis for human variation and diversity. In the case of clonal reproduction, all of the cloned child's genes would come from a body cell of a single individual. If I had a clone it would not be my brother, it would be a copy of me.

How about using the whole quote just to be honest ....OK?

Quote:

In sexual reproduction, a child gets half its genes from its mother (in her egg) and half from its father (in his sperm).... This combination of genes is a fundamental basis for human variation and diversity. In the case of clonal reproduction, all of the cloned child's genes would come from a body cell of a single individual. If I had a clone it would not be my brother, it would be a copy of me.

Had you done that everyone could see that a clone, asexually reproduced .... has only the donor's genes, not one each from the mother and the father.

This is tough stuff for conjecture or winging, you really should respect the forum by trying to be at least a bit more versed n the subject. While thirty five years in medicine hardly qualifies me as a genetic expert, I have tried to learn what I could.

Ok, I'll leave it in its original form, but it's not going to change anything. Because just like a clone, a twin takes all its genetic information from a single individual (itself). A twin *is* a natural clone.

I'll bet that if you look that up you'll change it .... I'm tired of trying to educate you, if you start to make sense instead of making stuff up then we can talk, this is the last stupid post Iwill answer.